MANY VOICES, ONE CALL
MANY VOICES, ONE CALL
Many Voices - One Call: Season Four/Episode One: Touch Grass, Make a Difference - Student Views on Civic Engagement
Politics is not a topic that many Americans bring up voluntarily. According to the Pew Research Institute, 65% of survey participants stated they "always or often feel exhausted when thinking about politics." More than half "feel angry,” only 10% feel "hopeful," and even fewer (4%) are excited.“ With a national election barely a month away, we wanted to know how our students experience the current climate. What do they see in politics? How does it matter to their lives? Are they engaged? Do they think their peers are?
Please join host Dr. Babette Faehmel and guests for an energized and highly insightful discussion of partisan polarization, misinformation, the role of social media in shaping our politics, and of what we ourselves can do to be empowered civically literate participants in political debates. The guests are: Sean Millington, Political Science Major, member of the SUNY Student Assembly, and the President of the College Democrats* at SUNY Albany; Daniel and Saeed with the SUNY Schenectady Student Government Association; SUNY Schenectady students Nadine and Cesarina, and Rae Doyle, Professor of Communication and Chairperson of the Academic Senate at SUNY Schenectady.
*We reached out to the Student Republicans at SUNY Albany as well but had not heard back at the time of this recording.
Looking for reliable information on current events and election matters? Check out these resources:
Retro Report
What they say about themselves:
“At a time when misinformation is rampant and there’s disagreement over objective facts, our team of award-winning journalists and educators is creating trusted documentary videos and classroom resources. Our work brings a greater understanding of current events, fights misinformation and encourages inquiry.”
The Center for Artistic Activism
What they say about themselves:
“At the Center for Artistic Activism we help people use their creativity and culture to effect power.”
U.S. Vote Foundation
What they say about themselves:
“Every Citizen Is a Voter. The foundation aims for every citizen to have open access to voter information and the ability to easily engage in their democracy and civic life with voting as a central action.
What they say about themselves:
Vote 411 is a “one-stop shop” for election-related information. It provides nonpartisan information to the public with both general and state-specific information on many aspects of the election process.
Ground News
What they say about themselves:
"Ground News was created to offer clarity in an increasingly chaotic media landscape. Our vision is positive coexistence where cooperative, civil debate is the norm, media is accountable, and critical thought is the baseline of our information consumption. We’re on a mission to well inform the world by empowering readers to think freely about the issues of our times."
The views voiced on this episode reflect the lived experiences and uncensored opinions of the guests; they do not necessarily capture the full diversity of attitudes within a larger community, nor do they express an official view of SUNY Schenectady.
Welcome to Season 4, episode 1 of Many Voices. One Call SUNY Schenectady's very own diversity, equity, inclusion and social justice podcast. I'm your host, Babette Fehmel, history professor and podcast host. Today we are without a student co-host because Alexandre, ho was with us for the entire season three, has transferred to SUNY Albany. Well, this is our October episode. It's the spooky season. It's also the month before a major election, and so that's also the reason why today we have decided to get together to talk about politics and we have guests in the studio. Joining us f rom University of Albany is Sean Millington. Sean, you seem to wear a lot of hats at SUNY Albany. Can you introduce yourself and say a bit more about what you do there?
Sean:Yeah, of course. So my name is Sean Millington. I'm a junior at UAlbany and I study political science and history. I'm part of the SUNY Student Assembly, where I'm the special advisor for special projects, which essentially is civic engagement. We want to get students all across the SUNY system registered to vote and then at UAlbany I'm also the president of the College Democrats there and I'm also a Student Association senator.
Babette:Also in the studio are some of our SUNY Schenectady's finest. Do you want to just go around the room and everybody introduces themselves? Sa, do you want to start?
Sayeed:Sure, yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Dr Babette. My name is Saeed Chambers. I am a first-year, first-semester SUNY Schenectady student. I am also a part of the Student Government Association here in SUNY with plans on becoming part of the whole entire SUNY A. Right, we're looking forward to the conference coming up, and you and I also met on one of the webinars that just recently passed. Yeah, and I'm just involved in a whole bunch of committees here, like the Student Activities Board, the International Committee, a few other things Budget and Finance. I do a lot of stuff as well besides make everybody laugh and smile. So I'm happy to be here and I'm going to pass it to my best man right here.
Dan:Hello everybody. My name is Daniel. I am the treasurer of the Student Government Association at SUNY Schenectady. I am a teacher education major with a concentration in history and as Sai is also involved, I also go to a lot of those student government committees and things of that nature, a lot of meetings I get around.
Cesarina:Hi, my name is Cesarina. I'm a student here at SUNY S and I am in Babette's class, DEI, and I'm a big mental health advocate.
Rae:And I am Professor Rae Doyle.
Rae:I teach the communication courses including mass media and public speaking, along with a social media course.
Nadine:I'm Nadine. I major in business administration, I'm a human resources specialist, full-time career, and I also am a small business owner that specializes in event planning, and I'm also in the DEI class.
Babette:And I did not force them to come. So you actually all volunteer to be on a podcast episode about politics, and I think that makes you kind of unusual, because it's not the most popular topic to talk about. So, for starters, I was just wondering if we could all talk a little bit about what do we even associate with the label, with the word, with the term politics? What do we even mean by that? Does anybody want to take that one?
Sean:Chaos.
Babette:Very much, seems like that sometimes.
Sean:But I mean, if we want to define it, I think politics is how decisions are made in government and also how we interact with that so they can make those decisions for us.
Babette:What do you associate with politics?
Cesarina:I think I kind of agree with that, but I'd like to add on to it just by saying that I think politics is kind of the system that we use to solve societal issues.
Babette:Okay, yeah, absolutely.
Dan:Polarization. That is, I think, something we'll be talking about later in this podcast.
Babette:I mean yeah, absolutely, we absolutely have to. I mean, I was just before this podcast. I was just looking up some studies from Pew Research Institute and I mean, like the negativity that is associated with politics is really mind boggling. So I found a study that said 65 percent of Americans, and like last year, said they always, or often, feel exhausted when they think about politics. Fifty five percent feel angry, only 10 percent feel that they are hopeful and more than 86 percent agree with the statement that Republicans and Democrats are more focused on fighting each other than on solving problems. So we seem to definitely have like a problem here at hand. So another thing that I that I find really interesting to get us started is like how can you, can you remember how you got interested in politics as a a a subject?
Sean:Yeah, so I got interested. I don't think this is normal, I got interested really young. I was always really interested in history. And that kind of got me interested in politics in 2016. During that election, when Hillary ran, I was 12, but I was a big supporter of hers. I really enjoyed that moment. And then, obviously, when she lost. I was a little sad, but I was always interested from there on and I knew it's what I wanted to do when I got to college .
Babette:So was the experience of disappointment that you wanted to work for change or have a voice?
Sean:Yes, yes, yeah, I would definitely say so. I want to be involved in the process because, we all can be.
Babette:Yeah, we definitely talk about that, like how we can be and what we mean by that. Yeah, okay, anybody else?
Sayeed:Yeah, so I also got into politics really young. It's funny because I can remember when I was really really young and I had a babysitter. I can't remember exactly the reason, but I remember that she used to like help me write letters to the current president at the time, I think it was Bill Clinton and I just had fun doing that. But growing up I kind of enjoyed watching the chaos you spoke of earlier, all the scandals and all the shenanigans that goes on with these politicians inside politics. I see politics can be a lot of language, a lot of rhetoric. Politicians and inside politics, um, I see politics can be a lot of language, a lot of rhetoric can be. You know some some, some, some discourse. You know either negative, positive, um propaganda, whatever.
Sayeed:So it just always fascinates me how politics actually operates on the underbelly you know and from whatever country you know, from the us to Russia, to North Korea, so yeah, that's my take on it.
Babette:Yeah, an, do you remember how you got involved?
Dan:Well, I would say I probably got into it from peers. I had a lot of friends in middle school and high school who were, you know, into activism and things of that nature, a lot of gay friends who would go to, like you know, pride parades, pride protests, things of that general nature.
Babette:My memories of how I got interested in politics. I was really, really young. And I just noticed that in my family, which is like a quite conservative family, politics was the thing that the guys talked about after dinner, like when we had like bigger family events and all the ladies went to the kitchen and did like took care of the housework and the guys stayed behind and talked politics. And I was just this like well problematic teenager and I stayed with the guys because I wanted to. I thought like there's something going on here, like why don't they have to do the housework? So I'm going to stay here and I'm just going to like voice my opinion, not knowing much, but I wanted to have a voice, Cez, do you remember?
Cesarina:Yeah, so I recently started getting into politics. My whole life I was kind of sheltered from it, I feel like I wasn't really educated on it and because of that I felt that my voice kind of didn't matter because I didn't want to state an opinion and not know the facts behind it, and so I kind of just stayed that way for a while, and I feel like the first time I really got like had an opinion that I thought mattered was I was in a relationship with someone who's not from this country so he's from a different country and seeing how the immigration system was, kind of like not okay in my opinion, like it was kind of like it was really hard to become an American citizen legally.
Babette:Yeah.
Cesarina:And to see going through that kind of made me like really start to get involved in politics. And then, especially like really recently, I seen a few Jubilee episodes about a bunch of "woke teens talking against Charlie Kirk and that really inspired me to learn more on these topics and hearing the facts about that.
Babette:Okay, and how about you, Ry?
Rae:I grew up in a very political family and one of the earliest memories from my parents was if you don't vote, you can't complain. And so it became instilled in me very early on that it was important to be knowledgeable, to recognize our role in being able to make change, and that we needed to be active that way, and so it really was, from a time I was a very little girl.
Babette:Yeah, and you, Nadine.
Nadine:For me it probably would be, I would say, the first time I was able to vote and the person that I voted for won the election, where I kind of felt like, okay, my voice does matter, my vote counted for something, counted for something. And then, honestly, because politicians and the whole idea of politics gives me a little bit of anxiety. It kind of makes me feel like we're focusing on more negative things than world peace. So I don't quite enjoy it, probably as much as others, but I think I'm learning to accept it and to actually get a little bit more involved, especially like I think this election coming, I'm so torn and I feel like I don't know which way to go.
Nadine:So I definitely feel like it's time to get involved, it's time to learn and make a difference.
Babette:Do you think that your attitudes towards politics are fairly representative of your generation or of your cohort of students? Or do you think like, what do you perceive amongst your peers? Because from, I mean, from my perspective as a professor here, I never hear students talk about politics in the public spaces, like where I was an undergrad in Germany, like there was constant talk about politics. And I'm wondering, like does it happen? And I'm just not aware of it, because it happens more in, like private spaces in college. I mean, you probably have the better insights there. What would you say? I mean, sga is not. It might also not be that representative, but maybe it is. Like within SGA do you guys talk a lot about politics, civic engagement and these things.
Dan:I wouldn't say that we do in SGA, but in terms of the student body in general, I would say we do talk politics, but I think it's generally relegated to private spaces, like you were saying, because of that perception that it's something that causes conflict and distress, at least in my experience. Anecdotally, whenever I talk politics with people, it's only usually a couple other students, you know. Yeah, not big groups, couple of people that I know well. Uh, people that I know generally agree with me. Um, people don't usually speak politics in open spaces,
Babette:I wouldn't say nd you say it's because they fear that it will just cause too much stress for themselves or create um like hostility, or Yeah, that's what I would say.
Dan:People tend to avoid it because of that perception of politics as a stressful and, you know, a problem.
Babette:Yeah, yeah, it's the polarization that you mentioned earlier. Like you are either like if you're not on my side, if you don't see things like I see them, you are on that other side and we don't get along. Is that what's happening?
Dan:Yes, and I think that is an attitude in politics that has significantly increased since the 1980s. I would say that was when politics started to change a lot in the minds and hearts of the citizens.
Babette:Because I mean, in a way it's funny when Sean said politics is and also chess is a process, right, like a process of decision making and of distribution. That kind of sounds fairly mild and, like, benevolent. I mean like if you are, if you've ever lived with more than two people, or like one other person, even if you're just living with a other person, you have to make. There needs to be a process how you decide how things are being done. And you say it became incredibly controversial and acrimonious in the 1980s. Is that how you perceive it too? Has this just been with us for quite some, some time, or was there more of that recently, maybe when social media came into the mix or whatnot?
Sayeed:I definitely agree with that statement because if you look at how America is structured right, if you look at the backbone of capitalism and free market and free enterprise, the whole goal is big business right.
Sayeed:It's big business. So, therefore, we have to have a governing system that's going to accommodate, you know, the people, right? And by the people I mean the industries, not the real people, not people like us, but, like you know, the markets. And I'm saying um, so like, laws change when there needs to be, when there's a change in the markets, a new demand, a new supply, you know. So, uh, what? The internet bubble, right? What was that? 99, something, 98, right. New things started coming to play 20, 30 years ago. We had no social media policies or cryptocurrency restraints and restrictions, but laws had to have changed in order to keep up with the times. And politics has to change as well. It's, you know, it's the evolution of politics. First, you know, the Romans were whatever public right, and then we come along with the democratic republic. First, you know, the Romans were whatever public right, and then we come along with the Democratic Republic, and, you know, whatever, whatever.
Babette:And a little bit of empire...
Sayeed:Yeah, a little bit of empire a little bit of you know swindling and you know all that stuff.
Dan:I think what you were saying about how laws change when the money, about how laws change when the money is there and it needs to change, I think that contributes to the perception of politics as something that people view as a negative. Because a lot of the time, like we talk about lobbying, right? Like, let's say, we got a big oil company or something you know and the government is trying to pass a law saying, you know passing a regulation on oil companies and you know drilling in endangered species, environments or something right, if that company doesn't want that law to go through, they can spend money to lobby those senators, those representatives and try to make sure it doesn't go through. So I think what you were saying about you know capitalism and how the money really affects politics I think that contributes to the perception of politics as a negative, corrupt force.
Babette:And I like that you emphasize perception, right? Because, I mean, I think, like, on the surface there is a lot of, well, corruption, scandals, and also the pervasive sense that whatever they are doing up there" and out there in some state house or in Congress is not really serving us like the common people or the people. But I'm wondering, is that supported by evidence, by facts, or how much of it is perception by facts or how much of it is perception? Because I also think I mean, yeah, sure, there is corruption in politics, but there's also a lot of real effort, especially on the local level or among members of Congress who are not constantly on social media, who actually are there to put their head down and do the humble work of being there for the public, doing public work? We don't see that, right? Maybe if we watch C-SPAN, but that's not necessarily in everybody's media diet. So I just wonder is the corruption the real story or is there another story to tell and do we hear about it?
Sean:I think the United States has a little bit of an institutionalism problem. So, I think the structure of the US government isn't 100% fair and accurate and built in a way that most effectively represents the people.
Sean:So, for example, we have the US Senate, where the state of Wyoming has the same power as the state of California, even though California is I don't even know the number, but it's a lot bigger. And that's also true in the electoral college as well. Right, we have a system where someone can win the election without winning the most votes in the country. So I think a lot of it comes down to the institutional problems we have with a document that was written over 200 years ago and it can't really adapt.
Sean:The founders never foresaw what America looks like now.
Babette:No, probably not. So yeah, yeah, once again, that's really, I think, important to keep in mind. There is an institutional basis and there are issues about the process and about the fairness of the process that one would need to be aware of in order to really assess politics and the state of our politics, because if you leave that out, then it's the corruption, corrupt politicians, liars who just want our votes and then they do whatever they want to do. So this kind of understanding of the process and the institutions is really important. Do you feel that we are properly equipped with that information and that knowledge?
Sayeed:I feel this though over time, um, as a society, we've gotten better, you know, with obtaining the information and making use of it. Um, if we can perpetuate our culture to be more proactive and engaged more in these politics, I I think it will, it can get better that's all we need we just need more engagement from all different communities from both sides.
Babette:Yeah, yeah.
Dan:At the same time,
Babette:Hold on, Nadine
Nadine:No, I was just agreeing.
Nadine:I think that's spot on accurate.
Babette:Yeah, I mean you need to have like a lot of people around the table when they are talking about what's best for the community. Right, absolutely! Dan?
Dan:I think on the same time as what you're saying, we have the Internet, right, we have what we call the information age and now we are quickly progressing into the misinformation age. And that amount of access to information that we are now equipped with is actually harming us, because people can just very easily spread misinformation, make false claims. I mean, you see, even at the vice presidential debate last, what was that last night, Tuesday?
Babette:Two nights ago.
Dan:Two nights ago. Yeah, there were plenty of times where the moderator stepped in and said listen, that's just false. You know, on both candidates. Yeah, and I think that's very scary that nowadays it's so widespread this misinformation.
Sayeed:Somebody just mentioned information literacy. Who? Was that that was you guys, and that's why that's important.
Babette:Yeah, right.
Sayeed:To sift through. You know all that nonsense.
Babette:Right.
Sayeed:Like, like, like financial literacy to know how to do your taxes, know how to do student loans, stuff like that, know how to use a credit card, information literacy is just an important and, as time changes, we need, you know, society to be more privy on that. Just like, um, you know, uh, what? Nowadays they don't even teach kids how to write in cursive. Why is that? Because there is no no need it for . Quote air quotes if you can't see me um, there's no need it 'cause everybody's everybody's just texting. But yeah, that's just that.
Babette:think actually that's a really kind of I ... Argh. I want to be alarmist, but I think that's a dangerous moment in human history. I mean, we have so much information that we are being flooded with and we have to decide almost in real time what is trustworthy, what's reliable, when are we being manipulated and when is something like completely made up right? And I just sometimes really worry that we and at the same time there's so little time because there are still, like all the other things that you have to take care of and feeling it's probably natural that one feels overwhelmed and helpless or clueless, and that then comes with a danger that you just check out, because you just decide like, okay, whatever, who knows what's true, Can we do anything about that? Or do you feel like that, that you are almost I don't know like overburdened with the challenge of figuring out what's fact and what's not, with the challenge of figuring out what's fact and what's not.
Dan:Well, I would say to our listeners, listen to this podcast, if you're feeling clueless.
Babette:Thank
Dan:If you are feeling clueless, and you want to know what's going on politically. Listen to things like this and we'll provide resources to help you Get out there, look around.
Dan:Make sure you know where your news is coming from. That's important. Make sureans how it leans and just keep an eye on things. I think this could also really needs to be pushed more in the education system as well. What do you mean? Well, you know in high school maybe a little more focused on it and you know we have people.
Dan:You have to take a US Gov class and you have to take a civics class, things like that. Maybe focus on it a little more. Make sure people are educated on this kind of thing.
Babette:Rae, you teach communication and you do teach digital media and new media and social media and all these things. I imagine students come to your classes because they are really interested in presenting information and how we interact with information. What do you hear from your students?
Rae:They have a lot of different reasons for coming in. A lot of them struggle with understanding. So I was thinking about something that you had said about left-leaning and right-leaning news. Right, but what I'm trying to get my students to understand, even at the most basic level, is that there's a difference between pundits and news. And so they get really confused and think that when they're watching some talk show that's politically related, that that talk show is actually journalism and it's not they are just opinion givers, and so we often are starting at the very basic level, because they want to understand how to figure out is this an opinion?
Rae:Or is this an actual fact? Is this journalism or is this just somebody talking about a topic? And so... I always start right at that very basic level, trying to get them to understand that there's a big difference there that you can. For example, in my public speaking class we're coming on persuasion right now and I actually have them look at multiple news articles Fox, CNN, Reuters, and then they're all about the same topic and they're shocked to find out that they're all delivering the same information topic and they're shocked to find out that they're all delivering the same information Fox News, CNN News, and we have these ideas that they're biased.
Rae:But they're not if they're not opinion pieces, and so they're always like wait, what that Fox News is, like that's not biased?
Rae:And I'm like, no, it's not, it's literally giving you the news yeah, because there's like the punditry part of Fox and of CNN or of MSNBC, and then there's the news part. Right and so they have a yearning, I think, to understand how to figure it out right.
Rae:How to figure out what's actual news and what's not news.
Babette:Yeah. Do you feel the same, Ces and Nadine? T hat there's a yearning among students to figure out how to distinguish bias from well, an argument that might be based on some misinformation or some falsehoods, but it's a sincere and honestly made argument, as opposed to something that is basically presented to you without particular concern about, like different sides or perspectives, or the facts? Do you feel that there is a real need to, like, figure that out?
Nadine:Yeah, I think my experience in particular, I think a lot of conversations that I have, whether they go good or bad, I'm often feeling like I don't know what's opinion and where they got their information or just things that you see on social media. You don't know if it's edited, chopped and screwed to you know spin a story or whatnot. So I would definitely say yeah, especially for myself.
Babette:Yeah, and you Ces?
Cesarina:I definitely think it's important. I also, though, would say that a lot of people don't really realize that, like. I think, a lot of people just see something and it fits what they already thought, so they'll like repost it on like TikTok or something, and they just agree with it, whether they know if it's true or not.
Babette:Yeah, I sometimes feel really like that we totally dropped the ball on this whole issue as educators, as institutions, because social media has been around for a while now and we didn't pay like people like me that we didn't pay much attention and in the course of not paying attention, we missed out on the fact that an entire generation, or two generations by now, I don't know, have, like, become, or have become immersed in a completely different information environment. And so now we're playing catch up, right? I mean, I never I watch, I don't know. I probably can count the numbers of TikTok videos that I've seen in my life with two hands, like two fingers, thank God, more than that, but I might be like 10, 15. But that's. I think that's dangerous because, like, you just lose,... you lose people, you lose out on realizing, or you just don't realize, that they operate in a different system, in a different environment. How do you see that? Yeah, Say, you've been quiet for a while.
Sayeed:Honestly, I live by simple rules. See, I'm a huge social media person. Like, I don't post a lot, but I scroll a lot. Like you can find me 2 to 4 am on Instagram for no reason, Right, just laughing. Right, looking at stuff or taking in information and news on these different sites and stuff. But I have one rule, right, on these different sites and stuff. But I have one rule. Right, it's not really a rule, but this is just the process of taking in information and seeing what is going to fit in my ideas. Right, first, receive the information, be open-minded to it right.
Sayeed:Secondly, don't believe it whatsoever. Third do some research. Fourth confirm or deny. If that last one, if I cannot do neither, then step three is the biggest one. Just don't believe it. If I can't confirm nor deny, then it's a no.
Sayeed:It's a no for me, dawg.
Babette:So you want, like, healthy skepticism?
Sayeed:Healthy skepticism through and through! Because I like to laugh at this stuff more than ... Because this is when I realized, um, some years ago, over covid, this is a great piece right here. Over Covid, I didn't realize that countries have different internets, right? I didn't even know, that until I started shopping in like Nigeria. One time, I was calling the mall, buying, buying like stuff, like you know, using my stimulus money, to do stuff or whatever you know.
Sayeed:So it just shocked me and then I started looking into it. Like information is spread differently everywhere. Right? Our information here is going to be different from the information that they're spreading over in Taiwan or especially opposition countries like North Korea. Right? Especially third world countries like Sierra Leone. You know definitely different. I mean, some might be a little similar, like you know Canada and you know all our you know ally forces.
Babette:Coming back to this idea of like how do we interact with information? Like what, what? What do we? What kind of options do we have? Like, how can we make sure that more people are not getting more, that people are not getting more cynical and that more people find like a process, just like Say has, like when, like how to interact with information, or like historians have right, because I mean, Dan, you have a history background, Sean, you have a history background like, how do we make sure that people are not checking out and not getting more cynical?
Babette:What can we as peers, like peers, like students amongst themselves and as educators too.
Dan:I think one of the things I wanted to touch on in regards to that is something Professor Doyle just mentioned: Confirmation bias, which is a very large issue with social media, no wadays. You get into these sorts of echo chambers where, like, let's say, you're on Twitter or something, right, you know, you get all these people, they all agree and it feeds you. So this is on any social media platform. It will feed you opinions that you agree with. Maybe not so much recently, but you know, uh, and I think that's a real problem that we need to work to combat.
Sean:Yeah, no, I, I totally agree.
Sean:And I mean I I've caught myself a few times where I like see something and I roll my eyes and I'm like, oh, I can't just like disregard this piece of information Right. So it definitely is an issue, and I think the first step is being aware of it. Right? If, if you're aware of it, you can take action to get better at it. But but overall, I think we need to. We really need to focus on our education systems. You were talking about this.
Sean:We need to do this more in school because, when I was young, we were never taught information literacy or anything like that, or even how to interact with social media, and that's something we might need now, I mean, as we're going into the age of misinformation, right? Well, one of the best ways to tackle that is by educating people, and we need to do that in institutions, in academic institutions.
Babette:Yeah, and I mean it's not that we have to reinvent the wheel, right, as historians you know like okay, so misinformation, dan, you're saying, well, we are entering the age of misinformation.
Babette:There have been ages of misinformation before, right, but it's like with social media or with the internet, everything gets amplified and it's harder and harder to find your way through that.
Babette:It's just like everything is so big and there are so many pieces involved and so much information. Everything is so big and there are so many pieces involved and so much information, and at one point we thought the Internet would democratize information and liberate us all. I think that didn't quite happen and thankfully, I mean, thankfully, like, civics is now a greater emphasis! Like, civic engagement, civic education, civic engagement skills, those kinds of things are going to be part of like the SUNY Gen Eds now, and also a bigger emphasis on information literacy. It's just, unfortunately, higher education moves very slow in adjusting and before we can reap the benefits of that, I think one of the best things that we probably can do is peer education, right, and peer mentoring and having like creating communities on campuses where you have like a captive audience, where we talk about this stuff. o do think, d o Do think, think our students are, like, interested and ready to do that a little? more.
Dan:would say so. I know because I'm the president of one of our clubs on campus.
Babette:Which club is that, again?
Dan:I have a captive audience, that, you know they've got to listen to me. So I'm thinking about next Wednesday. Now that I have this opportunity, I'll bring in some voter registration forms, get everybody registered to vote. But I think, like what you said, I think that's very important that you know, while the education system moves very slowly towards getting these things working, we amongst ourselves, as students, need to work to educate our peers.
Babette:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. How about you? So, Dan has a captive audience in the gamer ... E-game club?
Dan:Yeah!
Babette:What are some other ways in which we could do this? Like I mean, because, OK, not everybody is going to be comfortable with handing out voter registration forms, right? Especially, I mean, what do you think students even think about voting? Is that a thing that is already controversial? Well, not controversial, but just basically dismissed as a pointless exercise?
Sayeed:I'm glad you asked that, because when I was younger, especially like most all through high school, I didn't care about voting.
Sayeed:I really didn't. I was, like, whatever. U m, but I think to get more engagement with our students, I think we should fight fire with fire. We should use the media, right, to, you know, tell our story um to to explain, 'Hey, pay attention to this. Keep this in the back. You know your real. Keep this saved, bookmark it, right? Come back, take some notes, learn from this. Come back, take some notes, learn from this because this is going to help you, you know, become more involved an d have a more impactful, you know um, feel, feel like you have a more impactful decision amongst whatever decisions of voting and stuff like that.
Sayeed:I definitely am big into voting now. Actually, my mom, she's a huge advocate for political engagement, civic engagement and stuff and we talk about this kind of stuff all the time. But now that I have grown aware like you were saying earlier, just becoming aware. Now that I'm aware of certain things and I see all these doors now and I can see clearly, it definitely has a relevant part of my life. Because you know we're voting for people who are going to be making decisions, whether they're the decisions we want them to make or not. So it's important to get people in the right seats, right, and people don't understand that. I think, uh, uh, Ms. Rae, right? You were saying, if you, if you don't vote, you can't complain, right? So if if we're not voting to put the right kinds of people in the right places so that we know where we're backed and we have, you know, a voice and representation, then we honestly have nothing to complain about because we did it to ourselves.
Sean:I think one of the most beautiful parts about living in a democracy as well is that when we think politicians are doing a bad job, we can vote to kick them out of their job, right, right. So we need to be utilizing that system, because we do have that power.
Sean:That power is in our hands.
Babette:It's probably, to think about politics like that, is a really healthy exercise, right? A healthy exercise of vote, of your vote your voice, of like your power. I mean, it sounds cliche, but it is our power, right? But I think for a lot of people, before they are at their point where they see it as a healthy exercise, it just seems like challenging, frightening and not really welcoming, right. So I mean, Ces, you said earlier that you are a big advocate of mental health. Do you think that there are parts of politics, like how we do politics, that are actually, like, harmful to mental health? And that's part of the reasons why some people probably want to protect themselves?
Cesarina:Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of people are really afraid because you see the the main two parties and they're kind of, like, just arguing with each other, going back and forth, and they can't find a compromise. And so I think people are afraid to talk to even their friends about politics because maybe if they don't agree with you, they have a different point of view.
Cesarina:A lot of people are seeing that there's no compromise from the parties and I feel like they're afraid that maybe they'll lose their friends if they don't agree and stuff like that like. I think a lot of it's scary. It's causing anxiety, which is a big reason people develop mental illness is anxiety and depression.
Babette:Nadine, do you have the same impression that it's dangerous for your own health and sanity and well-being?
Nadine:Yeah, especially my family dynamics. It's like we're not even going to go there because we're having a good time right now.
Nadine:We want to enjoy each other. So I would definitely like to see more healthy conversation behind politics. A nd, to kind of piggyback on what you said. Definitely think it needs to be touched based a little bit more in schools at an earlier level and maybe we don't get into the detail and we don't go into, we don't put that type of stress on children and we protect them from from the nonsense, but just the basics. I would like to see like more stretched, go into depth, a little bit more on what it took us to get to this level, to have the right to vote, what it means, who you're voting for and what it means for the people below them.
Babette:I mean, I think one of the things that are really difficult to deal with is that discussions about politics usually involve something that is really very dear to somebody, that goes to somebody's core, and I think it's part of part of it is, like, it goes to the core of your identity or of like the core of what you believe is right, and that, therefore, disagreement creates like these like oh, yeah, yeah, I mean it feeds into these emotions that are really intense, right, like it's fear, it's anger, it's like feeling rejected. Is there any way to get around that? How do we deal with that? Is that something where you would say it's a skill that we need to cultivate, that we listen to one another again, that we kind of wait before we judge and that we don't take everything that seriously? Is that something that we need to relearn? Okay, Rae is nodding.
Rae:Yeah, no, I feel like that only works if all people involved are willing to do that right.
Babette:Yeah.
Rae:My family is very to very extreme levels as far as political beliefs, and it's difficult to have rational conversations sometimes so it's like I have made a lot of headway with my father, but with one of my brothers like it's like a no-go and so and it's because he's not willing to listen to both sides, right and so I think it becomes really difficult.
Babette:Yeah, I must, I must say, mean, I consider myself surrounded by people who are, well, smart people, educated people, rational people, but still, there are these places where they will not go, they will not open themselves up to the possibility that there's something about that position of that other person on that other side that comes from a good place.
Babette:Right, there's a lot of demonization going on on both sides and I think that is super dangerous. I mean, okay, so, as I said, I don't want to be alarmist, but if you demonize another position or a person who has different opinions, that is dangerous and that's definitely something that we should practice talking across differences and divides, right. So for a newbie, a newbie to politics, or somebody who has so far stayed non-engaged for various reasons, what would you say would be an easy kind of like way in? Like, how do we ease more people into these conversations?
Sayeed:So I was thinking well, one to make it easy for a newbie just join community stuff in local municipalities, like what I did first coming to school here. I just started joining stuff. You know, to get the vibe, get the feeling, just start joining stuff and listen. You know it could be small. You know, to get the vibe, get the feeling, just start joining stuff and listen, you know it could be small. You know neighborhood watch meetings, or, you know, whatever! You know, and then, you know, get more comfortable.
Sayeed:And, as a lot of us here pointed out, I know a lot of people don't like being comfortable speaking about politics around family, or public places. But I do feel like it would be a good idea to have like a safe place for people who need more understanding about politics, who may have a lot of anxiety and depression about it. To come to, like, um, in Canada and certain States in America they have these, uh, harm reduction centers right, which is very controversial. You could go and do you know illicit drugs and there would be nurses there to help you live right.
Sayeed:There should be a place where we can have tough talks right In a safe environment like that. And but even if we don't get that, just just start, do just one by one. Just, you know, I don't know start answering the questionnaires you get at the mall or something, I don't know. But there's always a way, there's always a route you know to take, and you just got to be inquisitive and adventurous and be a little bit brave. I know it's scary, but be brave.
Babette:Well, I mean you also said earlier like let's fight fire with fire, right? So if the media, like, the way in which the media has developed oftentimes works against all of this, like, understanding, of course, differences and maybe also use the media, use like what we have, um, the tools we have, to bring people together, right? I mean, like you can have a, like, you can have a virtual meeting, where you don't have to like sit, like, right, right opposite that person. You can still start um, like, listening, learning about their position, without having to actually touch them, see them, be in the same room with them. So maybe also seek out more opportunities like that, because there are plentiful, there are a lot of organizations that offer that right. Ces, how do you feel about that?
Cesarina:Yeah, I think people need to figure out what they believe what their values are what they want, because I think a lot of people just don't even really know themselves, or what they want in a potential candidate for something. So I feel, like, yeah, watching, like, using the social media to kind of educate yourself, but, like, you obviously have to be cautious and stuff. But if you aren't ready to have actual talks in person or anything, like that, definitely, just learning about what you believe in is the step. And then, I think, the second step would honestly be voting. Because, if you aren't ready to speak about it, y ou can still have your voice heard. B ut other people aren't really aware of about it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like you can vote with and it's confidential, you know?
Babette:Totally! I like, I love that that you say um, you need to figure out, like, what you yourself believe and what like. What is your, what is your identity? How is it it connected to your, like, idea about civics and politics? Right, that's really, that's really.... And plus, if you do that, then you probably also realize that what you value is pretty, pretty universal. Like you, we all want like a life of dignity and like some beauty in our lives and like, like, we want to be healthy and we want our loved ones to be healthy and other people want that, too. We just disagree on how to get there and how to get more of that, and maybe some people don't necessarily want to, like, share as many resources as we want to share with others, and I mean. Bu t once it comes back to those basics, we realize we all want somewhat the same.
Rae:Yeah, I always start conversations when we're doing persuasion again with the idea that with every controversial topic there is common ground. People just don't know where to find it. Like when you think about two sides of abortion, or two sides when it comes to guns. Like everybody has the same concern, they just are concerned about it in different ways.
Rae:And so trying to have those conversations is really important in order to get to that same page or same understanding, at least. Even if you can't completely agree, at least you understand where you're coming from. I also think it's important what you said about your own values, because so many people grow up with their parents' values, right, or whoever raised them, their values, but you come to a point where your values might shift, right? And so having those hard conversations within your family so that you can actually have good conversation again is really important. Like I, my parents didn't go to college, high school education, and I will never forget the day I came home from my first semester of college and I suddenly was like I don't agree with anything you ever said to me my whole life.
Rae:And clearly that wasn't true.
Rae:But that's what I felt, because I had suddenly started learning right and expanding my knowledge base, and so learning who you are as a person, I think, is a really important part of this.
Babette:Yeah, I mean, I hear you, I had that too where you have that moment like I have no idea even who you are anymore.
Rae:And you take it upon yourself to educate them, which was a bad idea!
Babette:Most definitely, and it's probably true for a lot of our students, because a lot of our students are first generation of students and their families, right? So, okay, that's awesome. So I mean, in terms of speaking to students and speaking to other professors and just like to people in general, like why politics, why engagement, why engagement with these matters matters, what would be like good new topics or the next topics that we as as a collective, as a community, as a group, talk about, where we're really like to bring home why it's important for all of us to sit around the table and have our voices heard?
Dan:I think this ties into what Cesarina said about finding your own identity. Um, I think the way to get people engaged in politics is to help them find their identity, find out what their values are and really get home to them on. These policies affect you directly. Like if you're a woman and you want to talk about abortion, that affects you directly. People of color, any kind of marginalized group. I think a good way to get people involved is to just tell them these policies that all these older, white, men are voting on affect you and this is why you should get involved.
Nadine:That was definitely it for me. Once someone spun it and said you're giving this person the power to choose how your life is ran changed it for me. I'm like you know. They don't know. You know they're rich and wealthy and they just live a totally different lifestyle and they may not even have experienced the way of life that we have, so it's important for you to go out there, pick someone that's gonna make decisions not just for the top of the food chain, but also for the bottom.
Sayeed:I agree with all of that and so, adjunct to that, it's important to be involved in politics, right? Like, and it's important to have these conversations in places where you know we should be having these places, like in the household, right, it starts here, it starts in this community, the household community, and then, you know, if you and your family can have this conversation, you can take it to a different family across the street.
Sayeed:You know it's about being all on the same page and all on board of what this community needs. Right? Because a community in the middle of New York City, Manhattan right, has different needs than the community out in Wyoming.
Nadine:Right.
Sayeed:So it's about being in the like, like if each family, you know, if each neighborhood has a church, right, and you, you know, each family in that church had this conversation. It came together in that church not to get religious or anything, but they could be like OK, this is how we feel politically and then we could talk to other people in other communities. If you can do that in every church in each neighborhood, you can actually change something in your local. You know power system, you know? And that's just an example. It doesn't have to be a church, it could be a barbershop yeah, you know it could be a school, you know community college.
Sayeed:You can change something, so it starts here. That's why it's important, because if you don't, you you will be lost in the sauce
Babette:ike, if you it's, it's very easy to feel just intimidated and confused and cynical when you are by yourself, when you're interacting with information by yourself. But the least cynical people that I know are the ones that are actually laboring with others, like communally, for some public good, who are engaged in their community, and it can be be really small, but as soon as you are engaging with other people, um, actual people, um touching grass, um you are, you're realizing that, first of all, it's not. It's not. It doesn't have to be intimidating and it doesn't have to like. They are real people and they might have different opinions about how the economy should be organized and regulated or if at all, but they are people and they're people just like you. And so for also, just like for mental health reasons, I think it's really important to create space for community and for conversations about like us as a collective, as a society. Sean, I think you wanted to say something.
Sean:Yeah, so I think you emphasize something really, really important. Um, when I got to uab, I'm from the area right, and I met, I had friend, new friends from from new york city, right, they live totally different lives than I did and I also met people from from upstate upstate new York, the Adirondacks right, completely different life than I have lived, and they also have different political beliefs, and that is because different things matter to them, and that's okay.
Sean:We shouldn't be demonizing people, because there are situations where something might be better for one person than it is for another, because they live in totally different worlds, and I think we need to be present and we need to recognize that. Because, when we don't, that's when we demonize people and that's when people tune out of politics.
Babette:Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. Nadine. You're nodding.
Nadine:Yeah, because I just feel like, when you look at it that way, change the narrative and that's how you have the more healthier conversations and that's how you have more people that are willing to be engaged. And there's just nothing that grinds my gears more than someone that has an opinion on something they never experienced or lived. So we definitely got to go out there, do our own research, be unbiased and research both parties Right, because I remember one time it was my first year to vote, I was 18, and I was like OK, how do I do this? What do I do? I don't even know where to start. I haven't listened to any of the Debates and I remember someone was saying Like we're a blue state, you absolutely vote blue, and I just knew In the pit of my stomach that that's not right. Like no, I really should have an idea and not go based off Of someone else's opinion or state for that matter. Right?
Babette:Yeah, absolutely. Rae? About that?
Rae:About that? Oh yeah, absolutely.
Rae:I keep coming back to this thought that I've had throughout. This is that I feel like sometimes, because we live in New York, people feel really disenfranchised, right because of the blue state thing, and so they think, oh, it doesn't matter if I vote, because it's going to end up being what it ends up being, like Harrisville and New York, because we're a blue state, and so they think it doesn't matter to go vote.
Rae:And so I think that if they see examples of local elections and state elections where it's not like that, right, where it's not the electoral college that's making choices, that that could actually impact whether or not they're willing to go vote, right because you can see so many examples on smaller levels where change happens, like school boards, right? A nd so there was a huge movement a couple of years ago where more people turned out for school board elections in New York than a real, than in years, because they were concerned about censorship with books in schools and things like that, and so they combated a real issue, right? And so I think, if people see that there are examples where your vote really does matter, that hopefully that will get people more engaged again, because, face it, we're not going to get rid of the Electoral College.
Rae:It doesn't mean you shouldn't go vote just because New York might turn out a particular way, right? If you disagree with how New York typically votes.
Rae:And so it's just really important that people understand that on the state level, local level, your vote is huge.
Babette:Yeah, I'm really glad that you said that, because I mean we need to remember that politics is also like local, our local community it's not just what happens in Congress, right. And also like most of us, like we, us as people, are way better than some of these um, like people who are just speaking for um clicks and likes and whatnot, or even whether that be on social media or national media, because I mean, I like, like it's just never as ugly as that stuff that happens out there in those spaces, what I have seen.
Sean:Yeah, I think it's also important to emphasize that even on a federal level I mean New York State specifically had I don't know off the top of my head but five or six congressional seats that were decided by less than a percentage point.
Sean:Like hundreds of votes and thousands of votes, like close elections that decided which way, decided who was the Speaker of the House, and that's true again in this election. Whoever wins, New York State is probably going to control the House of Representatives and Congress, so even on the federal level that's true.
Rae:They blame the president for everything but it's not the president that people should be concerned about sometimes.
Babette:Yeah, I know, definitely. I can testify to that as somebody who teaches American history online, so I see a lot what people write. Like, yeah, definitely, we are not a monarch.
Babette:So, so we are coming up on our usual, like hour our. Um, that means we need to wrap up, but, um, so, as a, as a last thing, um, do you have any kind of advice or suggestions for where, where people could go for reliable, unbiased, non-partisan information about politics or about, like some like,news- websites? Um, that, like you, would prefer that more people should be aware of?
Dan:There's this site that I I uh heard about recently, called Ground News, that, uh, a lot of people like to use because it specifically breaks down, um, how certain sources lean. Uh, you can get articles and it'll break it down, it'll tell you where they get their information from. That's a source that I personally like to use.
Babette:For media bias.
Dan:For media bias.
Babette:Like media bias checkers. Rae, you probably also have like a lot of them.
Rae:Yeah, Politico is often very good about showing bias and helping you to figure out what's true, what's not. I also tend to look more at sources like BBC and things like that because they tend to be less biased.
Rae:They just report on what is happening here in this country, and so you can find good information there.
Babette:It's also really great to have information about American politics from a non-American news source, because they're like what's going on there? We need to explain this. Say, do you have, like, suggestions?
Sayeed:It's fun that you asked. I'm a more, you know, adventurous person. Finding unbiased information? No. I feel like most information is going to come biased at some shape or form, but I would just just, you know, go out and see these places, see these people, meet people, talk to them, experience things. You know. Knock on doors. You know. Go join a book club. You know. Go watch I don't know.
Sayeed:Watch a movie, watch a documentary and come up with your own thinking.
Dan:As Dr. Babette said, uh, touch grass."
Sayeed:Touch grass, go canvas, go grassroots, go do, go, go experience for yourself, because then you'll r, experience for yourself, because then me, f or yourself better. time, I know for me. For a long time my grandfather was Republican. I had a lot of conservative ways of thinking growing up, but once I got older to know who I was, I became in the Green Party, which really means nothing, but it really doesn't matter because I can vote for whoever I want. So go find yourself, go out there, explore, be adventurous, be curious, be skeptical.
Babette:diet. Don't just listen and watch what makes you feel good about yourself or just people who you agree with, but also seek out other positions and other like ideology, other people on other I other, don't like, wanna say ends, but other parts of the ideological spectrum, because that's how we grow right and that's how we need to grow, gain?, And like new perspectives, to grow our knowledge. Sean, do you have a suggestion?
Sean:That was gonna be my answer kind of is look at both sides right. Right. Look at both sides, See where they're coming from right. Talk to people. That's also a big thing. Also something else I really want to encourage if your campus has it, if you're a student, join a political organization. There's not just political organizations. There's apolitical organizations. I know UAlbany has a club called Democracy Matters.
Sean:They focus on key big issues, but they don't endorse any candidates. There's also Generation Vote at UAlbany. They just work on getting people registered to vote. There's a lot of political orgs out there.
Babette:And that's good to know, because a lot of our students will transfer to SUNY Albany and then they have they know where, where to go right. Um, Dan you probably, Dan, and Say, because you are in student government, you probably know a lot more than me about like student clubs that exist. Do we have? Do we have civic engagement- like...[groups]
Sayeed:You know, the only thing I can say right now is that me and a few other members, um, of SGA, our SGA here at SUNY S chenectady, we are working on a streamline to have more um engagement from our student body. Right um, as as far as politically, I don't think there is anything besides SGA, right?
Dan:The closest thing we have at SUNY Schenectady is the Sustainability Committee which is part of the Student Government Association. However, if you are a SUNY Schenectady student, this is your chance to start one of these political organizations.
Sayeed:Yes, yes, yes, yes,
Dan:Please go to the student activities director's office and inquire about how to create a club
Sayeed:You know it starts here. All right, uh, loyal Royals, let's go!
Babette:Alright. That's a good last word there. Um, so okay, awesom e. That was a great conversation. So thank you once again everybody! Sean
Babette:Sean, Sai Say nadine Nadine cesarina Cesarina dan Dan and Ray. Many
Babette:Voices Won't Call is made possible thanks to the contributions of the Sunni SUNY Schenectady Foundation. We are especially grateful to the School of Music and in particular, stan Sten Isaacson, for their continuing generous support with the technical details. The recording and editing of the podcast was possible thanks to music students Benjamin Grable Gravle and Connor Shearer. Josh Johnson is doing the transcripts. Heather Meany, karen Karen Tansky and Jessica McHugh-Green deserve credit for promoting the podcast. Thanks also go to Vice President of Academic Affairs, mark Mark Meacham Meacham, College President Steddy Steady Mono Moono the Student Government Association Association, and the Student Activities Advisor. You can find more episodes of Many Voices One Call on Spotify.