MANY VOICES, ONE CALL
MANY VOICES, ONE CALL
Many Voices - One Call: Season Three/Episode Six: “Black Excellence: Beyond Black History Month!"
What does it mean to identify as "Black"? Is it the melanin level in one's skin? Is it a shared experience? A shared heritage? A culture? What does a "Black History Month" mean to people who might identify "as Black," but whose history and culture is not limited to US American experiences of "Blackness"?
Please join student host Alexandre Lumbala for his first solo podcast moderation on these fascinating topics. Alexandre's partners in this discussion are SUNY Schenectady County Community College students Jennah Kegler, Amarianna Canteen, Victoria Morris, Sovereign Strickland, Emanuel Joseph, and Wesley Rush. They are joined by special guest of honor, President of the college Dr. Steady Moono.
The views voiced on this episode reflect the lived experiences and uncensored opinions of the guests; they do not necessarily capture the full diversity of attitudes within a larger community, nor do they express an official view of SUNY Schenectady.
Babette Faehmel, Co-Host: 00:01
Welcome to Season 3, Episode 6 of Many Voices, One Call. My name is Babette Faehmel—history professor—and usually I am one of the hosts, but today will be student co-host Alexandre Lumbala's first ever solo episode. Alexandre planned this episode on the topic of the Black Diaspora at SUNY Schenectady entirely on his own. He came up with the talking points, he picked the guests, he issued all the invites, and he will be facilitating the conversation. We hope you will enjoy learning more about the guests and their perspectives on race, identity, Black History Month, and being a member of the college community. Joining the students as a special guest of honor is SUNY Schenectady County Community College President, Dr. Steady Moono, and now Alexandre will take it from here.
Alexandre Lumbala, Co-Host: 01:01
This is Many Voices, One Call, SUNY Schenectady's very own DEI podcast. You know, we've talked about a lot of things—we've had a lot of episodes—and this is going to be the episode on the Black diaspora in America. This episode is framed as an interview of you from different backgrounds. We're all different shades of Black—in the shallow sense of skin color—but there's also a lot of diversity amongst us. But in spite of our different backgrounds, in spite of the different places we come from, when we find ourselves here in this country, in this state, we're all grouped as one thing, right? I like the term...We're grouped by our melanin in common, right? That's the one thing we have in common, but we also share very different experiences, even though that's what we share in common.
So, it's kind of what we're gonna get into. I'd like to just go around the room and get everybody's name. (laughter) First name, last name, interesting fact about you, something you do at the school. It can be anything. I think I'll start with the one that is probably the most well-known. (laughter)
Victoria Morris, Guest: 02:15
He's the celebrity.
President Steady Moono, Guest: 02:16
The most well-known, huh?
Alexandre Lumbala: 02:17
The most well-known. The most well-known.
President Steady Moono: 02:18
Dr. Steady Moono, President of SUNY Schenectady County Community College, and I'm in my 10th year as a president here.
Alexandre Lumbala: 02:27
Yeah. Just carry on. Jennah?
Jennah Kegler, Guest: 02:30
Yeah, my name is Jennah. I'm a artist, and I'm a computer science major.
Amarianna Canteen, Guest: 02:37
Amarianna. Business Administration.
Wesley Rush, Guest: 02:43
My name is Wesley Rush. I'm a business major—student. I'm the vice president of the International Club. I'm also a part of the SGA—Student Government Association.
Victoria Morris: 02:54
Hi, my name is Victoria Morris. I am an alumni from here in 2022—Business Administration. I'm currently working now on my bachelor's at SUNY Empire, and I work here now full time. So, it's been a transition.
Alexandre Lumbala: 03:12
Congratulations.
Victoria Morris: 03:14
Thank you.
Emanuel Joseph, Guest: 03:15
Emanuel Joseph. I also work here—at the café—and I'm music...I’m in a music major. This is my second year.
Sovereign Strickland, Guest: 03:25
My name is Sovereign Strickland. I am also in the music department and, yeah, studying beat production this year. It's my first year here.
Victoria Morris: 03:35
Cool.
Alexandre Lumbala: 03:36
So, the episode is starting off definitely a little funny because we've all spoken before this. You know we've had a meeting. Everyone in the room is nodding right now. (laughter) But I would say for my introduction, you know, pertaining to this episode...I'm an international student. This is my last semester here, so I've been here four semesters—five semesters in community college so far—and it's been an interesting experience to say the least. Learning a new country, learning new dialects, learning new people, new ways of life, and interweaving that with my passions and, you know, just growth as a college student or as a young person. Could we maybe do backgrounds too? Where you're from? Just a thing or two about your culture? That would be nice. We can go in the opposite direction this time. (laughter) Sovereign first.
Sovereign Strickland: 04:34
I was born in Massachusetts. My grandparents on my mother's side are Jamaican and on my father's side Trinidadian.
Alexandre Lumbala: 04:44
So, I know, Sov, you’re a music major as well.
Sovereign Strickland: 04:46
Yeah.
Alexandre Lumbala: 04:47
You make your own music.
Sovereign Strickland: 04:48
I do.
Alexandre Lumbala: 04:49
You rap.
Sovereign Strickland: 04:50
This is true.
Alexandre Lumbala: 04:51
A little bit into art.
Sovereign Strickland: 04:51
Mh-hmm.
Alexandre Lumbala: 04:52
You want to talk about that a little bit?
Sovereign Strickland: 04:54
Okay, sure. I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do going into college, so I had at first studied Arabic and Spanish. And then I went to a community college closer to home and got my associate’s in science. And during that time, I created a business plan to license my father's beats that he used to make before he passed away. And so that's what had gotten me into music, and I decided to come here to further that education so I could pursue music on my own after this.
Alexandre Lumbala: 05:29
That was perfect. Yeah.
Emanuel Joseph: 05:30
Born in the Bronx, raised in Yonkers, and parents are Haitian, from Haitian—from Haiti (Emanuel emphasizes the correction. Various members of the group laugh.) and they came here, you know, looking like any other place, was coming to look for better things, better life. Moved here in 2021 of my senior year and I attended Schenectady High School. And then I came here not really knowing what I wanted to do...and wanted to pursue physical therapy. But then I wanted to change my major and go into music—go into the music department—because I want to...make my talent worthwhile, you know, use it to my best ability and try to see how much of a big space I can make it for myself and see how it can benefit me and benefit others. And, yeah, I like the music department and, yeah, that's my background.
Victoria Morris: 06:33
Victoria here. I was born and raised in Schenectady. I've been here my whole life. My mother's white, she's American. My father's Jamaican. My father has been in the States, like, over 40 years. He is Jamaican to the heart, like, deep down. I love being biracial. I try to always look at everything from, like, two perspectives. I was in the medical field for, like, 10 years and then I changed to business. But I do think I am going to go back to the medical field, eventually, in a—just a different role. But I... I want to create change. I'm just trying to figure out how to do that and navigate it...through the world.
Alexandre Lumbala: 07:19
We have some snaps going around the room right now. Yeah. (laughter) Wesley?
Wesley Rush: 07:23
Yeah, so I was born in Rensselaer—Rensselaer County, Capital Region. I grew up in Schenectady. Went to elementary school, middle school, high school in Schenectady. Soon after I graduated high school, I joined the military, traveled around the country for a while, so I've seen a different perspective outside of Schenectady and where I grew up. Me being out of the military now, I wanted to further my education and be more successful. I decided to come back to Schenectady and start where I... started from.
Alexandre Lumbala: 07:57
Yeah, pick up where you left off.
Wesley Rush: 8:00
Basically.
Alexandre Lumbala: 8:01
I like that. (laughter) Okay…
Amarianna Canteen: 08:05
Amarianna. I was born in Schenectady, but I've moved around quite a lot due to military reasons. So, I've gotten experience from down south, all on the East Coast. I went into business because...I guess growing up—and even now that I'm in high school and in college—I see a lot of my peers who don't know real life things that they should know coming out of high school. So, I decided to go into business administration to own my own business and provide those extra resources to those kids who don't know.
Victoria Morris: 08:36
Awesome.
President Steady Moono: 08:37
Terrific.
Jennah Kegler: 08:39
I'm Jenna here. I'm originally from New Jersey, born and raised in Newark. I moved to Schenectady officially about four years ago—at the beginning of the pandemic—for a work opportunity which kind of fell through, and my initial plan was to come back to school after attending here about six years ago. Real brief. And now I do have the opportunity to come back to school. My major used to be Business Administration, and I've since changed it to Computer Science because I'm looking to break into the tech field. After accomplishing some certificates and things on my own, I just wanted to also obtain a degree in Computer Science to kind of further that and expand my horizons.
President Steady Moono: 09:28
Terrific and I am—all of you know me, you'll hear from my voice—I'm the president of the college, Steady Moono. So, I was born in Zambia, and I share in several of... your stories because I came here on a full student scholarship and grew up in a total abject background, very poor background. And I'm incredibly thankful for education, and that's why I've—in many ways—dedicated my life towards higher ed—education. Trying to make a difference, because education changes not only a person but changes generations upon generations, and so I'm just privileged to have this chance to lead an institution.
Alexandre Lumbala: 10:25
Nice. Thank you, Dr. Moono. Thank you everybody for those beautiful introductions. Okay, so I kind of want to dive right in. When you guys started your journeys, made your decisions coming out of high school or, you know, coming to—going to a different country, or made decisions about, like, the kind of businesses you want to start... Like how—when you entered that field, when did you realize that, you know, your background, your melanin, your pres—the way you present yourself around other people, when did you realize that that is going to affect your path, your journey? Right? Our talking point is when did you realize you were Black? When did you realize you were part of a minority? Some of y'all already knew that. Some of y'all didn't. So, yeah, we're going to start, like, in the middle. Let's start with Victoria. (Dr. Moono laughs.)
Victoria Morris: 11:17
Okay (clears throat) well, I—my mother's side of the family was very racist, so I've always known that I'm Black. (laughter) That's never been hidden. But having older siblings, they've always made me feel comfortable with being Black. My dad has always made me feel comfortable. He’s always—I always ask questions about Jamaica because I wasn't born there, but I always try to learn as much as possible from both of my parents' side. (lip smack) I'd say I didn't realize I was really Black until, like, 3rd or 4th grade I was called the N word by another classmate, and, like, I didn't know what that meant, you know? So, you know, parents have to explain that to you, and then you grow older. And I always struggled with where I fit into the world because I'm presenting as a Black woman but I'm also biracial. People would always put me in a box: ‘oh, you act too white. Oh, you don't act Black enough.’ You know?
Alexandre Lumbala: 12:28
It's, like, a hard thing to navigate. (Crosstalk of agreement.)
Victoria Morris: 12:31
Yeah, and I still, even now, older, still struggle. Where do I fit in? But I just take it day by day, and just learn from my mistakes and learn from other people's mistakes.
Alexandre Lumbala: 12:45
Yeah.
President Steady Moono: 12:46
So true.
Alexandre Lumbala: 12:48
I really like your story and your background because—I think I've explained this to you in the past—but that it's the idea of being mixed; mixed interculturally, mixed racially, any type of mix. You might experience it in life when we even do, like, different tasks and hobbies, like, you have to bring a different persona to that task, to that hobby.
Victoria Morris: 13:07
Right, and even when you're always asked that question, like, ‘oh, what are you?’ You have to still represent both, or whatever, or even if it's more than that for anybody. That's still you. You know, I'm not going to dismiss my mom and I'm not gonna dismiss my dad. Like, that's me. And I'm the only child between my parents, so I—it's just always been me. Like, I don't really have—like I said I have other siblings, but they're much older than me.
Alexandre Lumbala: 13:34
Yeah, I mean, I think, Wesley, you have a similar, maybe, story?
Wesley Rush: 13:38
Similar, similar. Growing up, biracial. My father is white, (pause) unknown origins. (laughter) Mother is Black, unknown origins. (laughter) I come off as Hispanic, somehow? (laughter)
President Steady Moono: 13:58
You’re a man of the world. (laughter)
Wesley Rush: 14:01
So, I go off—I'm mixed. As far as me growing up, I grew up with my mother and her side of the family majority of the time—all Black—and I'm the lightest one, so I'm still the white sheep of the family.
Alexandre Lumbala: 14:16
The white sheep... (laughs)
Wesley Rush: 14:20
And when I spent time with my father... it was a little different because, you know, he's a mixed kid and, you know, his side of the family is all white. So, growing up in school I was too white for the Black kids, too Black for the white kids. So, definitely trying to find my identity is—was—a struggle for me. Even filling out job applications, you know, sometimes you get one option to pick either white or Black, but I'm both. (cross talk agreement) And then growing up, also even thought about that, identifying myself as a color. So, I struggle with that sometimes also.
Alexandre Lumbala: 14:56
You say you identified yourself as a color?
Wesley Rush: 14:59
I don't like to identify myself as a color: Black or white.
Alexandre Lumbala: 15:02
(surprise) Wow... ok. (Dr. Moono chuckles.)
Wesley Rush: 15:03
And I think that's the separation between us.
President Steady Moono: 15:06
Yeah!
Wesley Rush: 15:07
When you think of Black and white, you think of two total opposites, and that's just... Instead of unifying the races, we're kind of segregating them and if you guys ever notice, you don't see yellow, brown, red on your job applications (laughter), or you know the census, but you also see Black and white.
Amarianna Canteen: 15:24
Technically we are brown.
Victoria Morris: 15:26
We are brown.
Alexandre Lumbala: 14:56
We have different shades, right? (crosstalk agreement) Okay...
Victoria Morris: 15:30
And brown is in so many different shades. (laughs)
Alexandre Lumbala: 15:33
But I also wanted to point out—you said you're the light sheep, the white sheep? (laughter)
Wesley Rush: 15:39
The white sheep. No, you hear the black sheep of the family, you know, the white sheep.
Alexandre Lumbala: 15:43
I was the black sheep in the exclusively color sense, because I'm the darkest one of my family. My dad's a little darker, mom's like more brown, and then all the kids are like a browner and I'm just the dark one, I'm the firstborn. Like, everyone just popped out looking different, I was like, yo. (group laughter) But, yeah, it's interesting growing up with that too, you know your siblings and the people around you, they find strength in, you know, their commonalities and when you stick out it's hard to (sharp inhale), you know, yeah, find that, yeah.
Wesley Rush: 16:11
I feel like you're trying to find—you try to find paths to fit in.
Victoria Morris: 16:17
Always.
Wesley Rush: 16:18
And sometimes that path kind of puts you in the direction where you're doing things out of character, doing things that are not necessarily you. And it can—. It becomes conflicting. (group agreement)
Alexandre Lumbala: 16:27
Yeah... Does anybody want to add to that?
President Steady Moono: 16:30
So, I think I'm the oldest of this land (laughter)—of course—and I'm the mzee. As they would say in East Africa: I'm the old man (laughter). And obviously coming in this country in the ‘80s... I think to your question that you asked Alex in terms of when did you realize... you were different? Right?
Alexandre Lumbala: 16:51
Yeah, yeah.
President Steady Moono: 16:53
So—and most of you were not born in the 80s—I came in this country in ‘81. I probably realized that as soon as I got on the plane.
Alexandre Lumbala: 17:03
Yeah, yeah, I like that one.
President Steady Moono: 17:04
Because that was the first time I'd ever been on a plane. First time ever. (group surprise)
Emanuel Joseph: 17:07
Oh, wow.
President Steady Moono: 17:08
You know, from Sub-Sahara Africa to here, I realized that...but it wasn't, you know, there was nothing mean about it, but I looked around...
Alexandre Lumbala: 17:18
And you felt...?
President Steady Moono: 17:19
...and I said to myself ‘what are you doing here?’ (laughter) ‘What are you exactly doing here?’ So, I think that was an awakening, because growing up in, right in Sub-Sahara—and I travel to Africa a lot with friends from here, we go almost every year—and...there's a difference, right? There's a shift, and I see it even with my Caucasian friends, where there's a shift. You get on the plane, you go to Europe or Middle East, Dubai—that's usually where I fly from.
[17:51]
From there on the plane changes. There are more people who look like me, dark than they are white, and I can look at them and say, ‘boy, they are really feeling nervous now, you know?’ (laughter and group agreement) It's different, right? So, I think... That was the first time I realized—because just growing up in a country that's predominantly Black, you know, we didn't talk about that...
Alexandre Lumbala: 18:17
We don’t think about that. No.
Victoria Morris: 18:18
Right.
President Steady Moono: 18:19
... we just didn't. You know, we didn’t. And probably the second...the second in terms of progression. It's, you know, I—roommates in—. I went to a pretty elite four-year private institution that was very conservative and just my roommates and the questions they would ask. (Alexandre chuckles) The questions they’d ask, that just brought—. I looked around, I said, ‘okay, this is what is telling me something I'd never experienced before.’ And I think the third was my wife, my wife is white, she's Caucasian. And when we started dating, just the number of—even in college—the professors who said to her—not to me—who said to her, ‘you can't date a Black guy, what are you doing? You're in the ‘80s, are you out of your mind? You are not—no—.’ And Wesley knows my wife, you know, she's as African as you can get. (laughter)
Wesley Rush: 19:21
A very kind woman.
President Steady Moono: 19:23
And I just couldn't understand that—I was a young guy, like, you guys are, you know. I just—when she would come after class, she would say you know, ‘this professor pulled me aside, this is what I said.’ I said ‘wow, you know, there's something that we...need to deal with.’ And obviously—the church, you know our faith is important to us and... (Dr. Moono exhales sharply) I'm embarrassed to say the church can be the most prejudiced place you can ever be. Wolves in sheep's clothing.
Alexandre Lumbala: 20:02
That's an interesting perspective, especially at the end there, with ‘the church can be the most prejudiced place.’ Yeah, I think...
Victoria Morris: 20:09
I believe it.
Emanuel Joseph: 20:10
Yeah, I believe it too.
Wesley Rush: 20:12
I don't want to jump the gun here, but I have a question for the President and you—Alex. Being international and being from Africa, do you guys identify as Black, or do you guys identify as African? Because to my understanding—and I mean, this could be a worldwide thing—but I see mostly Americans identifying themselves as being Black and...
Alexandre Lumbala: 20:41
Africans as Africans.
Wesley Rush: 20:42
Africans as Africans.
Alexandre Lumbala: 20:43
Yeah.
Wesley Rush: 20:45
So, what do you guys identify as? Do you guys identify as being Black? Or did you guys start when you came to America?
Alexandre Lumbala: 20:51
Do you want to go first?
President Steady Moono: 20:54
I will. So, I identify as being Black, African is a subset of that, you know? Because I see the struggles here and the rest of the community, whatever that community is, does not make that distinction. They see, you know, they'll see someone who is Black, you know? So, I identify as a Black. But our experiences are different, and they're different in such a way that I didn't experience prejudice when I was growing up in Sub-Sahara, because predominantly it was...
Alexandre Lumbala: 21:26
Black...
President Steady Moono: 21:26
... Africans. You have an African president, 90% of the population is Black. So, I just didn't experience that. You know? We learned in high school—we learned about MLK and the struggles, the Civil Rights Movement, that was ingrained in us and... we really didn't understand it because it wasn't part of our experience. It wasn't. But in terms of identifying, I do, because...I'm not right.
[21:56]
So, when I walk the streets—even to this day, as a president of the college, to this day—I see folks, you know, I walk in, you know, in the streets of wherever I am, and I say I'm the president of the college. He says ‘there's no way you're the president of the college.’ (group laughter and agreement) I guess I'm not, right? (laughter) But I think their default is ‘you can't be this dark,’ right? I'm pretty dark. ‘You can't be this dark and be the president of the college. You have an accent, by the way, you know?’ (laughter and agreement crosstalk)
Alexandre Lumbala: 22:24
They’re reminding you... (crosstalk agreement)
President Steady Moono: 22:28
So, I don’t know, I examine...
Alexandre Lumbala: 22:22
So, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. It's a mixture of both. So, like... So, also being young—so, I'm younger and uh.... (Dr Moono agrees.)
President Steady Moono: 22:36
You're much younger. (laughter) You’re very much younger. You're my son, I call you... (laughter)
Alexandre Lumbala: 22:45
Basically, right? (Dr Moono laughs uproariously.) I grew up with, like, social media—my phone—and then my parents moved on from the Congo to Zimbabwe and Botswana. It's so—that's Sub-Saharan Africa—that's not far from Zambia.
President Steady Moono: 22:54
Yeah.
Alexandre Lumbala: 22:55
But Congo is Central Africa—so it's like two different cultures as well—so coming from the south and going to the north you can feel the difference. But that meant that I stuck out even there, even within Africa. Most people in Botswana tend to be lighter, right? And not as dark as me, not as tall in stature as me. So, like—and there I have an accent, right? The way I spoke English was—I learned English from television. My parents didn't speak English. They spoke French, and, like, other Bantu languages.
[23:28]
But...Yeah. So, like, one, I knew I was Black because I was darker than everybody, you know, from, like, (snaps finger) grade school, like, you know, dark jokes. (Dr Moono chuckles after a pause.) And then you get older and you stick out more and you just realize, like, ‘okay, so I'm Black, I'm African, but I'm Congolese specifically,’ right? There's also prejudice on the base of maybe tribe, right? Prejudice on the base of class...
President Steady Moono: 23:52
Correct.
Alexandre Lumbala: 23:53
...not necessarily on the base of race. But then, coming here, it immediately becomes apparent that I stick out, right? But not because of these, like, intricate details that we care about in Africa, but just simply because of the color of my skin. So, and...yeah, it's (sucks teeth) weird to navigate. I'm still—I'm not fully used to it. I still have a lot to, like, see and experience within the...
President Steady Moono: 24:19
And I'm not sure you can fully—so, here's again an old man speaking—I'm not sure you can fully navigate it. And the point you made—Wes—and it kind of touches on the extension of that is...I think we'll be...not honest if we say that prejudice doesn't exist in Africa. It does, but it's not a color prejudice, it's more...
Wesley Rush: 24:43
A class, a culture...
Victoria Morris: 24:44
Class, tribes...
Wesley Rush: 24:45
...values, norms...
President Steady Moono: 24:46
...class structure. Absolutely. It's a class structure and it is there, it's promin—predominant. You see it. It's right in your face from the moment you walk in the airport.
Alexandre Lumbala: 24:56
Yeah.
President Steady Moono: 24:57
You see it.
Alexandre Lumbala: 24:58
And I think Wes you always say that that exists also here, you know. There's, like, clashes between prejudice on the base of race. But also, on the base of class, on the base of (sharp inhale) social hierarchy, rankings, and all that, and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which...
President Steady Moono: 25:14
Correct.
Alexandre Lumbala: 25:15
...or how much it's mixed or not mixed. You know, someone could not like me simply because they feel like I don't dress as sharp as them. But because of my color I can feel like (sharp inhale) I don't know which one he's attacking, you know? (Alex laughs.)
Victoria Morris: 25:30
You always question that.
Alexandre Lumbala: 25:31
Definitely, you always question that. I think, Jenna, you have a similar story to me and Dr. Moono, in that you grew up in a predominantly Black community.
Jennah Kegler: 25:41
Yeah. So, originally, I'm from North New Jersey and...Growing up I'm right next to New York City—which I used to travel to on a train after school and high school—so diversity wasn't something that I wasn't used to. However...I didn't recognize that I was Black until I moved up here. (group agreement) And I think I was about 19—so this was probably about seven years ago—and I was at work and...I was just working, and I felt something go down my back (Alex laughs) down my hair (Jenna laughs) and I felt...I felt...I don't know. I felt really weird, and I turned around and I saw a white lady. I guess she was admiring my hair. However, I was violated. And it was because never in a million years would I have thought that someone—a stranger at that—would walk up to me and groom me.
Alexandre Lumbala: 26:31
Yeah.
Emanuel Joseph: 26:32
Yeah, like a pet.
Jennah Kegler: 26:33
Like a pet!
Victoria Morris: 26:34
Literally. (Dr Moono laughs.)
Jennah Kegler: 26:35
And to make that point, you know, people ask permission to even pet my dog.
Emanuel Joseph: 26:38
Of course.
Jennah Kegler: 26:39
So, she didn't ask permission to touch my hair, you know. So, like, that was the moment that it kind of clicked to me and I was just, like, ‘oh wow, I'm a Black person.’ Obviously, I know, like, what my skin color looks like. However, it was not until that moment that I felt like I was Black, because I felt like I was attacked at that point honestly. You know and to her it was probably a sense of...
Emanuel Joseph: 27:01
Curiosity... (crosstalk agreement)
Jennah Kegler: 27:02
Curiosity. You know, wanting to compliment me. (group agreement) However, I didn't take it that way. So, you know, it definitely instilled some fear inside of me as well because I'm not used to things like that. And I'm used to seeing different people, different colors, different ethnicities—interacting with people as well. But that right there was the moment that I was like, ‘oh wow, I'm Black’ and I'm in a different environment as well. (group agreement) And also, I'm Muslim as well. So, I do recognize that there could be some prejudice in that aspect, being that I'm a Black Muslim. You know, you get those stereotypes: ‘who went to jail,’ like, ‘when did you convert?’ Or things like that, and that’s not—that hasn't been the case. My whole family is Muslim: so, great-grandparents, grandparents. So, it's those intersectionalities that were really acknowledged when I moved to Schenectady. (group agreement)
Alexandre Lumbala: 28:01
Yeah. No, that's a very valid point. Especially when you say that you feel like you have multiple struggles with it too. Muslim, you identify as Black as well, and then you come to a place where not only are you now presented with how different you are, but people are also seeing you as—you know, some people maybe also have never seen a Black person...
Jennah Kegler: 28:25
Absolutely.
Alexandre Lumbala: 28:26
...or grew up somewhere way further where it was only white people. So, then it comes off as ignorant in the way they compliment you or ask you questions...
Jennah Kegler: 28:33
Right.
Alexandre Lumbala: 28:34
...and depending on our personalities you might take that very differently. You know, someone else would have reacted aggressively... (crosstalk agreement)
Jennah Kegler: 28:39
Absolutely.
Alexandre Lumbala: 28:40
...and it would have been—not to justify it—but it would have been like, you know, I feel a hand touching me, what if you don’t like—whoa!
Jennah Kegler: 28:46
What's going on?
Alexandre Lumbala: 28:47
Yeah, right? (Alex laughs.)
Jennah Kegler: 28:48
You know? Yeah.
Alexandre Lumbala: 28:50
Yeah, I get that. I want to jump to E, Sov, Amarianna. I wanna see—do you guys have anything to put in as well?
Emanuel Joseph: 28:59
Hit Sov first.
Alexandre Lumbala: 29:00
Yeah.
Emanuel Joseph: 29:01
She’s just sitting here.
Sovereign Strickland: 29:02
When you was talking about hair reminded me of an experience I had—in maybe elementary school, when I was still living in Massachusetts—and my mom had just pressed my hair, like flat-ironed it and put it up under it and everything. (laughter) But when I go to school, you know, like, we got gym class, all white girls are just throwing it up, put a little water, and go. So, let me put a little water... (Crosstalk and laughter followed by an unintelligible sound.)
[29:29]
And you're like, ‘oh, my gosh, okay.’ And I came home, my mom was like, ‘that's not you girl, like, we can't be doing that, that's not how we work.’ And I was like, ‘oh, like okay.’ But it was also...I think my mom being a single mother at the time, she didn't really have the time to show me and teach me those little things. And then—for that same reason—I ended up moving to upstate New York to live with my aunt and uncle and their two children.
[29:50]
My aunt is white and my uncle is Black, so their children are mixed and I'm the middle. I was introduced as, like, the middle child as well. So, there was always that. And we didn't even go to school together. And in school, just noticing that I was the only Black girl there and having to represent kind of at the weirdest times where I was just doing me, but they look at me, like, ‘well, what do you think?’ To speak on behalf of all... (crosstalk agreement)
Victoria Morris: 30:15
All Black people in the entire world. (laughter)
Sovereign Strickland: 30:19
Right? They're not even present in this conversation. And so, I think that for me was when I realized, like, that I was Black. And I think in high school too, I wanted to get out as soon as possible—because of that—I just felt singled out all the time. So, I graduated early and decided to go study abroad. Now me not having done enough research, I went to Argentina. And they were not (unintelligible) I was like, ‘oh no, like, what have I done again?’ (laughter)
Alexandre Lumbala: 30:51
Wait, hold up, not to cut you off, but did you expect Argentina to be more...?
Sovereign Strickland: 30:55
I thought it would be a little more light skinned, I don't know (group laughter) something, I don't know. But when I went it was very much still, like, giving blonde hair, blue eyes, and that's fine. But there was maybe one Brazilian family in the small town that I went to and so everybody just said I was Brazilian, because that family was also darker skinned.
Alexandre Lumbala: 31:14
I see.
Sovereign Strickland: 31:15
So, when I came, they would come up to me speaking in Portuguese and I'd be like ‘I'm a student here, basically. I don't know, that's not me.’ (laughter and crosstalk) So, I just felt out of place. Like, no matter where I went. I was like ‘jeez I tried to flee, and I'm still stuck in this box.’ (Dr. Moono laughs.)
Alexandre Lumbala: 31:30
I have a bit of a question on that too. Just that Argentina—you again—like the demographic is maybe majority, you know, less melanated than you, ourselves here. So...but then you're surrounded by this community, and even people of your same shade also probably speak a different language, live a different culture that's probably closer to the majority of Argentina. So, I'm assuming you had to mingle with, you know, like, different, like, the Argent—how do you say—local Argentinians?
President Steady Moono: 32:01
Yes, right. Indigenous ones, yes.
Alexandre Lumbala: 32:04
Yeah, not just the indigenous, but the local...yeah, like, basically, right?
President Steady Moono: 32:06
Yeah.
Alexandre Lumbala: 32:07
And did that, maybe, change your view on, like, what you, like, the white folk that you grew up around, compared to the white folk that you see in this different culture with different struggles?
Sovereign Strickland: 32:18
I don't wanna assume anything, but based on how I was treated, I feel like my first host family was racist. (Victoria vocalizes sympathy.) Still. So, that was like a tough experience trying to navigate. ‘Why are they treating me like this?’ Or ‘why are they acting like I'm out here doing bad...?’
Alexandre Lumbala: 32:33
Okay. (Dr Moono laughs.)
Sovereign Strickland: 32:35
Like, literally, I was so young. I was a student just going to high school still...
Alexandre Lumbala: 32:38
Just learning, like...
Sovereign Strickland: 32:39
Yeah. Like, I have no idea...
Alexandre Lumbala: 32:40
Everything is new to you.
Sovereign Strickland: 32:41
I took little high school Spanish, but when I got to Argentina honey, I didn't know anything, like... (laughter)
Emanuel Joseph: 32:47
With that family did you feel like sort of like a fake love?
Sovereign Strickland: 32:48
Yeah...
Emanuel Joseph: 32:49
Like they were just faking everything?
Sovereign Strickland: 32:51
And it was very apparent because how the exchange program worked. If they wanted their son to go somewhere, they had to accept another student from a different country. (group acknowledgment) So, it wasn't something that they wanted to do, and that was just very obvious as well...
Alexandre Lumbala: 33:08
Okay...Yeah, yeah, E and Amarianna.
Emanuel Joseph: 33:12
You can go first.
Amarianna Canteen: 33:12
Oh, thank you. I guess the first time I realized I was Black was in 4th grade. Ever since I was young—well, I'm still young. (laughter)
President Steady Moono: 33:23
You wait until you get to my age. (Dr Moono laughs uproariously.)
Amarianna Canteen: 33:26
Being in elementary—I went to elementary school in upstate New York—I developed at a faster rate than everybody else. So, I was constantly getting pointed out at, especially when, like, people would just look at me. Like the clothes that I would wear. I was too, you know, too developed to wear youth, but then I wasn't developed enough, and the clothes didn't fit me for, you know, women. So, I would often just, I guess, get looks, and it's that stereotype that, you know, Black women do develop faster than everybody else. So, it was constantly that question of you know, ‘how did you—are those real? Like, is your body the way that it—like, is that natural?’ Like I would always just get questioned on my physical appearance.
Alexandre Lumbala: 34:10
And that must just be, I guess, a different reality, because you're a kid growing up...
Amarianna Canteen: 34:15
Yeah.
Alexandre Lumbala: 34:16
...and you don't even understand why you're being asked these questions.
Amarianna Canteen: 34:17
Yeah. (group crosstalk)
Amarianna Canteen: 34:21
Yeah, there was just times that I would, like, hate going to school because I would always get looked at and always get pointed out at and I just felt like I was, I guess, limited. Especially limited to the clothes that I wore because, again, if it was youth, it was too tight. If it was, you know, women's clothes, it wasn't appropriate enough to fit my body, especially going to elementary, like, you know, kids are learning about their bodies. But my parents and my family has always let me know that it's okay that I look different from other people, but I guess, not having them there with me to explain and, like, feel comfortable, I was just, like...I put myself in a bubble and I just felt very weirded out, I guess.
Alexandre Lumbala: 35:04
Could you say—? Because even Sov, like you felt, like you know, singled out—and then you also felt singled out—and that prompted you to go: ‘You know what? Let me keep moving, let me move out of this environment, let me go on to college early.’
Amarianna Canteen: 35:16
Oh yeah! I am an early college student. I'm still in high school. (laughs) As you go through middle school, elementary, again, kids are starting to learn their bodies. So, again, the looks that I would get— even from grown men now—like, I get that you don't know my age but the way that they look at me, sometimes, the way that they talk to me, it's like it's uncomfortable. (group agreement)
[35:39]
It's just made me uncomfortable—and being in an early college program—I'm glad because I went to high school for one year and I experienced it. It wasn't the best for me. Now that I'm in an environment with peers that are older—come from different ages—I feel more comfortable and not like I'm being stared at because, again, I've developed at a faster rate. So.
Alexandre Lumbala: 36:05
Okay. That's interesting. I think it's interesting to see the way—I guess I want to say—race dynamics play out in in school in America and, like, how unexpectedly it can affect your decisions in class, in school...
Amarianna Canteen: 36:19
Yeah.
Alexandre Lumbala: 36:20
...and just your whole vibe about school. Like, obviously as a teenager myself I was—I finished also pretty young—like 15, 16, I was done with high school. But, like, dealing with other stuff that was—had nothing to do with my race, right?
Amarianna Canteen: 36:33
Right.
Alexandre Lumbala: 36:34
So, you know, continuing school—it doesn't mean you're gonna do bad or good—it just means that that's what you have to deal with. You have to grow up.
Amarianna Canteen: 36:40
Right, that's something that you take into consideration.
Alexandre Lumbala: 36:42
But it's definitely interesting to see how it affected your decision to, you know, move along.
Amarianna Canteen: 36:49
Oh yeah, I was like, ‘I definitely don't want to be stuck with these kids anymore. I need to be with older people.’ (group laughter)
Alexandre Lumbala: 36:51
It also begs the question for: how many kids go, ‘you know, I don't like this. I just I don't.’ They don't think, maybe, ‘let me go off to college.’ Maybe they don't have that guidance. (agreement) They just think ‘this isn't the place for me. More of my folk are just at home. They're doing their own thing.’ Maybe they just start work—and then it kind of gives you more backstory to more people who might have made the decision to just say, you know, ‘this is not for me.’
Amarianna Canteen: 37:16
Well, just one more thing. Again, I did travel a little bit. So, I did go to school down south—completely different from upstate New York. So even then, like, I've always been called a perfectionist. I've always been called uptight because I did academically well. Which...I just thought that I was hitting the standard. So, I was always the only Black and female student to be put in academic extracurriculars. And, again, when people who were lighter, darker than me, they would just look at me weird, like, you know, ‘why are you doing all this extra stuff?’ Like...
Wesley Rush: 37:46
‘Why are you acting white?’
Amarianna Canteen: 37:50
Yeah, yeah! (group agreement) ‘Why do you talk white?’ You know, ‘why do you look like that?’ And a lot of...I don't know it's just like (crosstalk) this is just me, right? And then personal space too. Like people just didn't know how to stop touching me. Like I was constantly just like...And I'm just like...That's not, you're like, you're not making me comfortable. So, that's when I had to get aggressive. And then they didn't like when I got aggressive.
Emanuel Joseph: 38:11
They don't like when you get aggressive.
Amarianna Canteen: 38:12
No, no. (group laughter)
Alexandre Lumbala: 38:14
Okay, saving the best for last. (group laughter) Last for best or you know...
Emanuel Joseph: 38:19
Last for best.
Alexandre Lumbala: 38:21
Yeah. Do you...?
Emanuel Joseph: 38:28
I guess—same way—I guess...You know, like, that realization when you're...I think—. My mom, like, sat me down once and told me basi—not told me what that was about, but told me I couldn't act a certain way because of it. Because growing up in New York is...It kind of was a space where, like...the kids over there were just really like...How can I say this for now? They were like troublemakers. Really wasn’t supposed to be doing, like, a lot of things got introduced to me I was supposed to not know—got introduced to me from all these other kids that were outside in the streets doing things like that and my mom...
[39:04]
I think I was...I was a troublemaker younger so, (laughter) my mom would just be like; ‘you can't.’ You know, ‘make sure your pants is up, make sure you're just dressing well, nothing is wrong, because you can't act a certain way, because white people look at you differently, because you are Black, you can’t do that.’ So, I was like, ‘I can’t do this? I’m just—but I want to do this.’ And it would be tough, and I think...I'm at in part where I try to fit in, try to be a part of those people—that group of people that I'm not supposed to be in. And, also, realizing the fear I instill in white people for some reason, because they see a Black boy and just, like, go across the other street.
[39:44]
I'm like, ‘what? I'm just walking, I'm not doing nothing to you.’ (group laughter) And I think also—being a troublemaker—and, like, instead of me getting the same amount of suspensions as this person would; I would get a five-day suspension, they would get one. It was like, they'll really single me out because of this. So, I guess that's really how it was for me. And my mom would just remind me every single day.
[40:08]
She was like, ‘you can't do that, no, don't do that.’ And I think she also sees this stuff, I think. You know, she probably watched TV, seen the things that were happening while she was in Haiti, and like was, had—wanted to protect me. And I guess she was also scared as well, because she was like, ‘they're going to just single him out and I can't protect him while he's at school. And then he wants to fit in, now he's doing all this other stuff. I'm gonna lose him.’ And it was like, yeah. So, I guess, yeah. That realization like, yeah, I'm Black, I can't...
Wesley Rush: 40:32
Just to bring something up—listen to you guys like tell your stories on when you guys realized you were Black—and then there's like there's a common little aspect of it and I peep that...A lot of times when you guys realize that you're Black is you're realizing that you're different (group agreement) and it sounds a little negative, you know? Like you...with someone touching your hair, the way people look at you...the different fears and stuff...And...Is Black really being different?
Alexandre Lumbala: 41:15
If it's in the—.
Victoria Morris: 41:17
If it’s in...when it’s in white spaces... (crosstalk agreement) Yes, you’re different. (crosstalk agreement) Predominantly white spaces.
Alexandre Lumbala: 41:26
Was there something that you were...?
Wesley Rush: 41:31
Cause I just—it just brought to my attention. It was like a little light bulb. Boom. (group laughter)
Victoria Morris: 41:33
So, you're saying like it's been a negative...
Wesley Rush: 41:36
It's been a negative little flow.
Emanuel Joseph: 41:37
Let me say this—because I don't see it as—I mean, I think I love myself. I don't see—I don't let any negative things that people try to put on me. I'm not worried about what you think about none of that, because I see positive in myself. But I guess it's just outside sources—there's really negative towards us in a sense and it's like, wow. But you have to be aware of that, you can't just be oblivious. (unintelligible)
Jennah Kegler: 42:05
Right. I want to, like, touch on that point because, like you said, the moments that we had that realization that we're Black; they were all triggered by negative moments that made us become aware. But, like you said, it's when we're not inside of spaces to where our skin color doesn't—it doesn't matter. Like I said, like I'm from Newark, but everybody who I went to school with, like they're either Black or like Hispanic. So, that's not what differentiated us, like the color of our skin. So, I think that that's why it wasn't something that I ever really acknowledged. You know, even just in school we learn about our history and things like that, like my parents—my grandparents especially—wanted to inform me about, like, my Black history.
[42:47]
So, you know, ultimately, I knew, but I didn't feel I was actually Black. And I feel like it is kind of associated with some sort of, like, negative, like, stigma around it, simply because it, are—these moments that have to make us become more aware of our surroundings, because of how people perceive us. You know, we have our own perception of ourselves. I just thought that I was a Muslim when I was back home. That was how I really identified. But when I'm up here I'm a Black Muslim now. So, like, that's something different. Now I have to acknowledge that aspect of me because that's not something that I thought about back home. Also, I'm a Black Muslim female. (group agreement) So, it's just—if it's not one thing, it's another, you know, but that also shifts, like, with your environment.
Alexandre Lumbala: 43:35
Yeah, no, 100%. And thank you, Wes, for shedding that—like shedding that light. You know, to somebody listening it definitely seems like the negative things are the ones that brought, like, our Blackness to our attention or triggered us. But there's also been times in my life—now that I think about —like, that I realize that I'm the only Black person here, but in a good kind of sense? Like, I was able to add to the conversation, I was able to share something with somebody, and they were able to share something with me. So, yeah, there's also positive moments, yeah.
Wesley Rush: 44:00
Yeah, I wanted to shed light because you hit it on the head. (pause) I don't realize that I'm Black. And maybe a lot of people don't realize that they're Black because it's so normal until something different is shed to light. And maybe that different causes conflict and it could be negative. But at the end of the day, I don't see myself any different than anybody else until the conflict comes along. (group agreement)
Alexandre Lumbala: 44:29
Good point, conflict kind of brings that up, right? It brings up the differences. Yeah. So, on that—cause a lot of the talking points if you guys went over or even if you didn't like a lot of them—like, I wanted to get everybody's ideas out on Black History Month. I wanted to create like—to give, like, that conversation—allow the listeners to hear what we really feel about it, not talking for your whole community, but just talking for you, right?
[45:00]
It's interesting because, like, we're talking about positives and negatives just now. We're seeing—and I think we see that with Black History Month, right? We struggle to find a balance between the positives that it can bring and the negatives that it can bring as well. I guess I will just start with saying, like, how do you feel about it? What would—how? How—since it's the last, it's almost the last day—how did your...
Wesley Rush: 45:25
Leap Year, extra day. (group laughter and agreement)
Alexandre Lumbala: 45:29
How did your Black History Month go? Just anybody, if you're ready to say something, or else I'll pick on you like a professor or something. (group laughter)
Wesley Rush: 45:38
I think Black history is American history, which should be expressed every month of the year, not just the shortest month of the year. (group laughter)
Victoria Morris: 45:50
Agreed, that part. (laughter)
Wesley Rush: 45:52
And to...
Alexandre Lumbala: 45:53
We got some snaps here.
Wesley Rush: 45:54
To make it—to make it one month out of the year, it's kind of like...It's kind of—to me it sounds like pity.
Amarianna Canteen: 46:03
Did you know it used to be a week?
Jennah Kegler: 46:04
It used to be a week.
Sovereign Strickland: 46:05
Yeah, it used to be a week.
Victoria Morris: 46:06
I was gonna say, it use t—right.
Wesley Rush: 46:07
That's even worse.
Emanuel Joseph: 46:08
(unintelligible) ...to be grateful. It was a week now.
(Crosstalk.)
Jennah Kegler: 46:14
Yeah, you know, like, that's what we just was speaking about when we was, you know, kind of going over the questions and then just trying to get some history on the Black history. To me, it just seems like this is like a little sense of reparations, you know, you guys just take this and be happy with it. We gave you a week, now we gave you a month—don't matter that it's the shortest month, you know, and this is—you should be fine with that.
Amarianna Canteen: 46:33
We gave you something.
Wesley Rush: 46:33
But how the society is going on now, like every month is a different month, right? So, I think it takes away from the Black history.
Jennah Kegler: 46:41
Absolutely.
Alexandre Lumbala: 46:43
I mean, even before we, like, started to realize that every month has a different theme, like, Jenna and Amarianna pointed out to me—and Sovereign, right? You pointed out to me that there's a day for everything. (crosstalk agreement)
Jennah Kegler: 46:52
Absolutely.
Alexandre Lumbala: 46:53
It's a National Podcast Day now.
Jenna Kegler: 46:54
Right!
Emanuel Joseph: 46:58
Would you say, like—. I want to see your answers. Would you say, once they saw—was Black History Month the one thing of a month that was represented, like they gave us Black History Month? Because, like, my question is like: do you think once they saw Black History Month, it's like, ‘why don't we have a history?’ Like why...? (Unintelligible sound followed by crosstalk.) Do you think that’s when all these months started happening?
Wesley Rush: 47:15
Yeah, cause I mean—I think about that all the time too, because, you know, we celebrate Martin Luther King and all these Black historians. Do we celebrate George Washington? Do we celebrate Thomas Jefferson...?
Alexandre Lumbala: 47:27
But don’t—don’t...
Wesley Rush: 47:28
...or all these other people?
Alexandre Lumbala: 47:29
So, think about it like this, right? Just to answer that—like we have George Washington—so I'm not American, so I'm not good with who's on the bills...
Wesley Rush: 47:38
On the dollar bill, yeah.
Alexandre Lumbala: 47:40
But we celebrate them without even knowing, in a sense, right?
Wesley Rush: 47:42
Okay, okay.
Alexandre Lumbala: 47:43
It's like we celebrate, I guess, white culture without even knowing it. Some white people would say they don't have any culture, which is not necessarily true, right? Maybe in some cases, but very rare cases, because culture has a lot of different definitions, right? But just being in class, like, white people experience being the majority without even really realizing it. (agreement)
[48:05]
I think we were talking about how, you know, about how being the minority on the college campus—a white person doesn't really think about that, because they see other Black people. Maybe we stick out to them, but they don't realize that we're, like, the most in the class. So, it's kind of like you're saying... so, we have Independence Day—they shoot the fireworks—they have their day, they have, like, their Labor Day...
Wesley Rush: 48:28
Is that a white thing or is that an American thing?
Alexandre Lumbala: 48:30
It's an American thing though, it's not a white thing but it's tied to whiteness. Just in the sense that the majority of people who are celebrating it are white.
[48:38]
They don't have to celebrate the thing that they all have in common, just based off of color, right? They already know that. They have other little things within those groups of color that—maybe Italian-American, I'm Irish-American, da-da-da-da—that they might celebrate, right? And then they all came together as Americans, and they have their Independence Day. But a question for Dr. Moono—because for me, Black History Month didn't really make sense until I came here.
[49:05]
It still doesn't really make sense—I think it's only my second Black History Month and it’s like... (group laughter) It's only my second one, and it's like whoa, okay, a whole month. Like, I remember just—I don't even know if I realized it was like coming up and then people were like, ‘oh, February, da-da-da-da.’ I'm like, hmm, never thought of February as like a festive month. (group laughter) You know it’s just—they taught us in school, like, it's the one with the less, the least days. That's all I knew about it. (group agreement and laughter) It's the one with the least days, that's all it is. But Dr. Moono, do you think it's a bit different? Like growing up did you hear stuff about Black History Month? Was it—?
President Steady Moono: 49:36
No, I think growing up in Africa—no, I didn't. There's no Black History Month in Africa. However, I think in the context and the history of the United States of America...it makes sense...if it's done right. It makes sense if it's done right. I think, as Wes said, it can be ceremonial or patronizing—and in fact, you know, I look forward to the day probably not in my generation but in your generations where hopefully it won't be necessary to do that, right? As MLK said, that—you know...
Alexandre Lumbala: 50:16
...hand in hand...
President Steady Moono: 50:17
...race won't be a factor anymore, right? Creed won't be a factor anymore, right? That we'll all be one. And—but the reason we celebrate it is because it points out, for me, it points out that there are still these buckets, these vestiges that still exist.
[50:36]
I think just one point, I think, for all of you as young people and as the leaders of tomorrow, is you cannot function on the maxim of all. I always say, you know, to young people: you have to work on A N D. And. It's always about and. It can't be all. It's not one or the other: It's both. And I think if you can embrace that, right? Whether it's in the context of race...
Alexandre Lumbala: 51:06
Life. Everything.
President Steady Moono: 51:07
...life, it's always—the powerful aspect of that is the and. The and, not the all. Right? And that's what we've talked about in the—no, the last 15—not 50 minutes. We've been talking about and and all and no—that tension that exists.
Alexandre Lumbala: 51:24
Yeah.
President Steady Moono: 51:23
But, at the end of the day, I think the A N D wins out. The and wins out.
Alexandre Lumbala: 51:30
Okay, no, I like that.
President Steady Moono: 51:31
Because you can't just be Black and say that's all.
Alexandre Lumbala: 51:34
Yeah, there's a lot of ands...
President Steady Moono: 51:35
There are a lot of facets to it. You can't just be white.
Alexandre Lumbala: 51:37
Yeah.
President Steady Moono: 51:38
There are a lot of facets to it, and you are the next generation that's gonna help us be better.
Alexandre Lumbala: 51:45
That needs some snaps. (audible group snapping) I like that because that pulls it back in. Because when looking at issues of race and looking at issues of color, it definitely gets negative fast and it gets kind of hopeless...
President Steady Moono: 51:57
Yes!
Alexandre Lumbala: 51:58
... and we forget that we're the ones who, like—we're the ones of that color, we're the ones who can control our narrative, so to speak, right?
President Steady Moono: 52:07
So true.
Alexandre Lumbala: 52:08
Yeah. Yes, we've been given a month that, you know, sometimes we feel like we don't have control over what happens during that month, but the truth is we do, right? The truth is we can frame it in whatever way we want. Like Christmas the 25th—like some people do Kwanzaa, some people do—don't celebrate Christmas. Some people, you know, it's—that day exists and it's not going to go away. But, so, now to move to, like, another talking point. What do you guys personally feel like you would want to see from a celebration of, like, Black excellence or Black history? For me personally, growing up in Africa, Black history and excellence is every day.
President Steady Moono: 52:45
Correct.
Alexandre Lumbala: 52:46
It's not Black excellence, it's just excellence. It's not Black history, it's just history, you know? So, like, that's my point of view. I feel like it should just be something that is a part of the curriculum. It should be something that is taught in March, general—all the months. Yeah, but yeah...
Victoria Morris: 53:00
I'd like to start on that—like piggybacking off of what you said. I think...in order to form more unity in the United States, we need to take colors and races off of all of these things, instead of just doing Black history. It's our history because it's still this country's history. White people were here, Black people were here, everybody was here, and Native Americans—Indians—were all here, so it's everybody's history. I feel like it creates more segregation to be honest. Personally, Black History Month to me is a reminder of what Black people have gone through, but it also needs to prepare us for our future and by remembering those things and what people go—what people have gone through...Like...we can do better...as people, like, and not just the color thing, like just better as people. Like, we need to be nicer as a society, we need to treat people how we want to be treated, and I know that's like so cliché and so corny, but it's true! And...I'm just so sick of everything—and I can only speak on my experience here in the US—but everything is always based on color and I'm just over it. Like—you're a student, you’re a faculty, you’re staff, whatever—you're a person, that's all that matters.
Wesley Rush: 54:27
Exactly.
Victoria Morris: 54:28
Like this color thing—it's an obsession and it's a negative and it's too obsessive.
Emanuel Joseph: 54:33
It takes the humanity away from you.
Victoria Morris: 54:34
Right.
President Steady Moono: 54:35
That's so true. You couldn't have said it better. Absolutely it is and...But you are the generation that will help do that. You are the generation that will help do that. It is imposed, it's forced, it's superficial, but...it's you who have to help us. Some of us—this generation, my generation—is so steeped in that, so steeped in that.
Alexandre Lumbala: 55:05
Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with the obsession with color, the obsession with race. It does exist. In the country where I'm like—I guess it's the minority—but someone pointed out to me that it's overrepresented in the media, like the Black community. Because we had to talk dealing with historical trauma, we had Elaine Porcher come in and she just, you know, gave us some statistics. The population—what, 14% of America is Black, right? But like a lot of the musicians we listen to, we see them in movies, get a bit of an over-representation sometimes and that creates some type—it pushes into negative stereotypes, right? You could say back in, like, Dr. Moono's era when rap music was kind of popping off and it was kind of gangster rap—like yes, there's gangs, there's gangs everywhere, in every country, regardless of race and...But if you pop that on the TV and you make it one color, then it's gonna seem like that's the color that's doing all of that right, but that's not—that's not necessarily true. And when we start to get into the people of it, right? How we move as a society, how we move as, you know, just human beings, how we—the energy that we transfer to others, it kind of brings us, like, down to the actual humanity of it.
Victoria Morris: 56:25
Right.
Alexandre Lumbala: 56:26
Yeah, I like that. I like that very much. Anybody else wanted to say something—? About adding to the support, the representation or—not the representation, sorry—but adding to the celebration of your culture in a sense.
Victoria Morris: 56:45
Oh, I want to say something. I want to see more, like, around—when we talk about Black history in the US we always talk about...it's always shed on like a negative light slavery, or it's always just ‘oh, Civil Rights Movement, MLK,’ like there was a whole lot that went on between all of that, the beginning of slavery, ending of slavery and I want to see us talk more positively about Black excellence in this country. I mean, just in general, everything should just be more positive.
President Steady Moono: 57:21
But we should be talking about it every day.
Victoria Morris: 57:24
Yes, I mean...
President Steady Moono: 57:25
...29 days or 28 days...It should be every day.
Victoria Morris: 57:27
I know that there's magazines right, like, Essence is a perfect example, I read that all the time. But that should be more mainstream in the media going on, not just in one small magazine or—. For example, you know, like, just more positivity around Black history. There's so many things that we don't know, like so many inventions as well that came from a person of color, and we don't know that because we're always focused on slavery.
Alexandre Lumbala: 57:55
Let me spin that for just a second. How do you feel like you yourself now are part of that change and the paradigm or the way it appears? Those celebrations, do you feel like right now you just dropped some knowledge on us, Victoria, for everybody listening? Now they're like, ‘oh yeah, that does exist. That is true.’ Sometimes it's spreading information, sometimes it's, you know, bringing together people.
Wesley Rush: 58:19
I think you have to change the narrative.
Victoria Morris: 58:20
You do, and I think it's important to educate yourself, because no one else is going to do it for you. I mean, I at least know, like, in school, my dad would always tell me this: ‘you're going to learn whatever the teachers are going to give you, but you need to dive in more. You're going to need to do more.’ And you're just touching at the surface.
[58:40]
I think it's important to dive deeper into all topics, but when it comes to Black history, we need to learn more. But I also know, unfortunately, we've been stripped of our history and we unfortunately haven't been able to have it properly...recorded. And a lot of times, I'm not going to say always, but a lot of times it's always from a perspective of a white person. And that's hard because you're—. At the end of the day, you don't know what it's like to be Black. You're a white person, especially at those times, so it's harder to find like literature from a Black perspective, especially at that time.
Amarianna Canteen: 59:20
Right.
Victoria Morris: 59:21
And especially for Black women.
Alexandre Lumbala: 59:23
You want to say something.
Amarianna Canteen: 59:25
I was going to say, being in the high school curriculum now, of course, you have to take a history class and...All they focus on is slavery.
Victoria Morris: 59:32
Right.
Amarianna Canteen: 59:33
Like, for these past seven, eight years that I've been in school...When we talk about Black people, it's about slavery and then that's it.
President Steady Moono: 59:42
So true.
Amarianna Canteen: 59:43
It's really negative. And then, like, when you do go to ask questions, they're like, ‘oh you know, I don't really know, maybe you're just going to have to research it yourself.’ Like it just gets pushed off. But the curriculum definitely needs to change. You need to educate the youth on where they come from, because there are Black individuals who are young, who don't know half their history. Like, that's who you are. That's something that you should grow up learning. And not saying that it's just their parent's job, just the teacher's job. Like it's everybody's job as a community to put more Black excellence, more Black history beyond slavery out there.
Alexandre Lumbala: 01:00:20
I will wrap it up. This conversation...there's a lot of facets to it. It's hard to address everything within the space of 60 minutes, but I'm glad that we all got together and got to drop very valuable pieces of our own stories and how they merge together. This was a beautiful podcast. Thank you for coming and thank you for listening to Many Voices, One Call. (Alex chuckles) SUNY Schenectady‘s very own podcast.
President Steady Moono: 01:00:44
Thank you.
Victoria Morris: 01:00:45
Thank you.
(applause)
Babette Faehmel: 01:00:48
Many Voices, One Call is made possible thanks to the contributions of the SUNY Schenectady Foundation. We are especially grateful for the School of Music’s—and in particular Stan Isaacson's— continuing generous support with the technical details. The recording and editing of the podcast was possible thanks to music student Evan Curcio. Heather Meaney, Karen Tansky, and Jessica McHugh-Green deserve credit for promoting the podcast. Thanks also goes to Vice President of Academic Affairs, Mark Meacham, College President Steady Moono, the Student Government Association, and the Student Activities Advisor. Stay tuned for more episodes where you get your podcasts.