Many Voices - One Call: Season Two/Episode Five: Spotlight on DE&I Professional Development, Part 2

For over a year now,  teams of SUNY Schenectady faculty,  staff, and administrators, have been meeting to research and discuss key topics in Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.  On this episode, join host Babette Faehmel, Professor in the Division of Liberal Arts, to learn about important insights from these professional development teams. 

This episode features Tiombe Farley, Director of the Educational Opportunity Program, and lead of the team “Allyship,”  and the co-leads of the team “Racial Equity,” Dawn Jones, Assistant Director of Career Services, and Michelle Ragucci,  Director of Academic Services.

For our earlier conversation about “Microaggressions” and “Decolonizing the Syllabus” please see episode one of Season 2!

For a literature guide created by our wonderful librarians at the Begley Learning Commons see the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion page!

If you are a current student at SUNY Schenectady and interested in co-hosting, please contact Dr. Babette Faehmel at faehmeb@sunysccc.edu

The views voiced on this episode reflect the lived experiences and uncensored opinions of the guests; they do not necessarily capture the full diversity of attitudes within a larger community, nor do they express an official view of SUNY Schenectady.

Transcript

Babette Faehmel, Host: 00:07 

Many Voices, One Call is the podcast you didn't know you wanted. It's space for courageous, honest, open, and unscripted conversations about diversity, equity, inclusion, teaching, learning, and all the other things that move us. It is where students, faculty staff, alumni, leadership, and community guests reinvent higher education, one episode at a time. I am your host, Babette Faehmel, history professor and coordinator of the Student Mentoring Program. Jennifer Malave, our student co-host, has graduated. If you are a student and you like this podcast and you are interested in co-hosting, please let us know. Contact information is in the show notes. Okay, today we are having our second part of the spotlight on DEI professional development episodes.  

00:56 

Part one was already featured in season two episode one, and today we will be talking about allyship and racial equity, and I'm joined today by my wonderful colleagues Tiombé Farley, Interim Director of EOP, Dawn Jones, the Assistant Director of Career Services, and Michelle Ragucci, Director of Academic Services. Well, welcome! So, racial equity, racial equity. What... 

Michelle Ragucci, Guest: 01:27 

Dawn was the big team lead. She led all of the racial equity teams.  

Babette Faehmel: 01:31 

All right. All right, 

Michelle Ragucci: 01:32 

If you want to start with that, I'll nominate Dawn.  

Babette Faehmel: 01:36 

Okay, fantastic. So, what is meant by racial equity and what were you looking at?  

Dawn Jones, Guest: 01:42 

Well, really, I mean, we started out with defining what that was and mainly the difference between equity and racial equity and how we look at those differences. And realizing that we're not all coming from an even playing field when we get here on campus and, specifically, our students of color are disadvantaged in the resources that they have when they're starting here at the college, and we can't expect that the services, the resources that we have in place are going to affect everybody in the same way when we're not taking that into account. And so that was really, sort of, how we were looking at some of that.  

02:41 

You know, equity itself refers to fairness and justice, but you know, equality is really looking at providing the same to all, and if we just look at providing the same to all, we're not creating equity. And then taking that deeper lens when we look at it in terms of race, that's where we really start to see the disproportionate percentages of, you know, success outcomes for our students. So, that's really what we were looking at.  

Babette Faehmel: 03:14 

So, did you already know that there are these gaps, and it was before you started working on racial equity, or did you find that while you were researching things and looking at the data for our college specifically?  

Dawn Jones: 03:27 

Well, you know, of course there's all that, you know, national data but when we look at it in terms of what we're doing here, specifically at SUNY Schenectady, that's what, you know, we really took that broader lens to begin with, did the research and found out some of the best practices out there.  You know, some of the different programs that other colleges might be implementing and things like that and looked at what that meant for our student population. Because we can't take things from other colleges that are meant to serve their population of students and just apply it across the board here, because it's not going to necessarily be the same for our students.  

04:12 

So one of the things that Michelle's team in our cohort did we started out with four different teams, we're now down to two teams but one of the things that Michelle's team and Lorena's team did within the racial equity cohort was they sort of teamed up to provide some focus groups for our students to have their voices heard, and so I don't know if Michelle maybe wants to talk a little bit about that piece of it, but I think that's where we're really going to find the information that we need in order to affect change for our students is—what are their experiences? What are they saying?  

Babette Faehmel: 04:56 

I really like that, like going to the students and asking them specifically about how they are experiencing their education instead of, well, thinking about it from a distance, never actually asking them, and then deciding what are best practices. So, Michelle, how did those focus groups go?  

Michelle Ragucci: 05:14 

They were great and I'll just back up a second. One of your questions is about, you know, when we were in the groups. You know, how did we go into it? And, well, I would say we went into it blindly because the group, the way the groups were assigned, all the DEI groups, were assigned where you were almost assigned to your not comfort zone. Yeah, yeah, cause, you know, the way they sorted our knowledge base.  

Dawn Jones: 05:39 

We threw them in head first.  

Michelle Ragucci: 05:50 

Yeah! So, it was like, ‘oh, I don't know a lot about racial equity and, you know, I know a lot about equity, but the racial equity you know is a different piece.’ So, a lot of our research came across, often, student voice and it's become like a really big, you know, interest of mine to really get out there and really start asking our students what their experiences are. So, things like a student climate survey were some items that we came across in our research, developing like an equity scorecard for campus to use in like different areas. But then, of course, like, the focus groups. So, we were like, well, let's do focus groups. So we developed five different focus groups, and we did them during the month of March. And we developed different cohorts so students would feel comfortable with the people they were with and sharing.   

06:34 

So I would say, generally, the students had a really positive experience with what they experienced at the college, and their biggest suggestion was to have more things like what we did, like they want to talk about it. They want to do the discussions. They wanted, you know, more opportunities to share. And you know, the irony is, a lot of our students who came to the focus groups were White students, but they wanted to support students from other races, and they may have had experiences with supporting students, you know, from other races. And so—getting to eventually Tiombé—but, you know, maybe the development of like an allyship toolkit or something that we can provide to students to give them the tools that they need to help others on campus or be an advocate or, you know, be an ally, I think would be a great development from the focus groups, something that we were able to accomplish using that information.  

Babette Faehmel: 07:37 

Well, I'm not surprised that it's primarily White students... 

Michelle Ragucci: 07:41 

Because that's what we have. 

Babette Faehmel: 07:42 

Because that's what we have.  Like in general, I mean, I mean, I think it's—what is it? More than 60 percent White students, right? 

Michelle Ragucci: 07:48 

Yeah. 

Babette Faehmel: 07:49 

And did they—? So. it was their idea to develop an allyship toolkit, or are these tools that are readily available?  

Michelle Ragucci: 07:55 

No, like I think, after looking through all the information, all their feedback, all the notes, the surveys from all the groups, you know how there was a reoccurring theme of wanting more opportunities to support other students or discuss this topic or educate others. It kind of just dinged that whole toolkit thing.  If they maybe want to help but don't know how to help, and I think that's a common theme with the people who work here too we want to help, but sometimes we don't know where to get started right? So, I think toolkits will be really essential for making sure people have what they need to be the allies that we need on campus.

Babette Faehmel: 08:34 

Yeah, and I mean the amazing fact is that there is all this research out there and all these like books that were written by people, by people of color, by Black scholars about like college experiences and the equity gap. So you really... it's, it's out there, right, but you have to kind of like seek it out and put yourself to I don't know like sit down and study it, right? 

Michelle Ragucci: 09:01 

Yeah. Maybe a toolkit will have, like you know, a great list of books you know and resources that you can—and the library could have a, you know, DEI toolkit section. 

Babette Faehmel: 09:10 

They are currently developing that, right?  

Michelle Ragucci: 09:12 

Yeah. Mh-hmm. 

Babette Faehmel: 09:13 

Yeah, wow. That's awesome. But I mean when there are—. How—like percentage wise—how many Black students or students of color did you have in the focus groups?  

Michelle Ragucci: 09:28 

Really not many. I mean we only had about maybe 20 students participate total in the focus groups. I would say there was maybe three or four students of color in that.  

Babette Faehmel: 09:41 

Do you want to do that? Do you want to do the focus groups again?  

Michelle Ragucci: 09:44 

Yeah, I mean it would be really great. It's so hard to get buy-in sometimes. You know, getting the students to, you know come, you know we try to incentivize it and you know, just like workshops, it can be kind of difficult to get students to find a time that works for, you know, all students. It's really difficult, right?  

Babette Faehmel: 10:04 

I was just about to say—to ask—do you have an idea of why there were so few students of color?  

Michelle Ragucci: 10:11 

I don't know. You know, the irony is we had a BIPOC group. We had a group specifically safe space for students who identify as BIPOC and that one had the least attendance unfortunately. 

Babette Faehmel: 10:23 

Because, maybe, it didn't reach the audience because they are more likely to work, maybe? Do we know that?  

Michelle Ragucci: 10:35 

I don't know. I mean it would make sense. We tried to do a lot during the college hours that we do have. We tried to vary it. You know morning times, or we had a three o'clock time, we had a five o'clock time, so we tried to really spread it out, and students could identify with maybe wanting to attend more than one group. It wouldn't just be like, oh, that group is only at that time and that's the only one I want to go to.  So, yeah, it would be great. I know it's kind of like ironic, but we need we almost need to survey students on when and why would they not attend an in-person event that would support them and support their voice. You know, what we need to ask students what is the best way.  

Babette Faehmel: 11:22 

I mean that would be the best thing, but maybe they were just not comfortable with them.  

Michelle Ragucci: 11:27 

Yeah, I don't know. 

Dawn Jones: 11:28 

I worry about that. I worry that that's not why—. That's why they're not coming to take part in the discussion is that—you know, not necessarily because of things that we've done here at the college, but just today's climate in general. You know, are they feeling so much, you know, that they're just not heard, that they've just given up on trying to be heard. And I worry about that.  

Babette Faehmel: 11:51 

I mean it might also be because this is such a time of turmoil and of activist... energy. However, there also have been a lot of—I mean, let's be, like, blunt. Like, White people being attracted to racial justice movements for a while and then realizing that, even though they came with the best intentions, they are not having the experience that they were hoping they would have. Or they find pushback or what not, and so maybe—and then they drop out because they can, because that's White privilege, right? So maybe it's also that for a student of color who hears there's another, like, focus group where a bunch of White people wants to hear about my experiences, maybe that's a turn off? I mean, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if that was a turn off. 

Dawn Jones: 12:40 

I wouldn't be surprised either.  

Babette Faehmel: 12:43 

Yeah, that's unfortunate because, I mean, of all the people I know around here who really stuck with the DEI group—so the diversity, equity and inclusion groups—they are really committed to do the work long term, and also the research and self-reflection, right? 

Dawn Jones: 12:59 

And it's hard, and it's not comfortable. And I think that that's why a lot of people, do you know, drop off. But I think it's important to push through that, and I think our students need to know that there are people here on campus that are here for the long haul. And so hopefully, you know, with the work that we are doing, they will start to see that.  

Babette Faehmel: 13:23 

So, just one more thing before I want to get Tiombé into the discussion—because you were mentioning the allyship toolkit and that's, like, allyship is her group—but well, the group was focused on racial equity. Are there differences in terms of equity, for example, Black students, or equity for Hispanic students, or for students of Guyanese descent? How does that—? How did you deal with that?  

Dawn Jones: 13:58 

Well, I think you know, one of the key things is realizing why some of those inequities might be in place and when we—and I say ‘we’ as White people, right?—we are not familiar with their experiences, then, you know, we’re not going to recognize the long-term and lingering effects that these inequities sort of carry with them. And we look a lot at what the symptoms are, but we need to go back and really look at where they stem from and look at the root causes. And that's one of the things that we've talked about a lot lately is going back and looking at what the root causes are, so that we can remove those barriers to begin with. And, you know, I think some of the things that have come up are just fees are in place for even things as simple as transcripts or whatnot, you know. And why are these things in place? Do we really need them? 

Babette Faehmel: 15:15 

Right, right.  

Dawn Jones: 15:17 

And when we can remove that barrier altogether, it has a positive impact on all of our students. But more so for those students of color who potentially can't afford that $8 to go and get their transcript or the $12 to get their transcript, you know. And we talked a lot about access to opportunities on campus. If they're having to work to support their families while they're going to school, they don't have time to be hanging around after class to, you know, to make use of the resources. So, how can we make things just really accessible for everybody and how can we make sure that all of our students know about all of the resources that are there?  

Babette Faehmel: 16:04 

Right, right. And did you learn in the focus group something about how best to reach students? Because I mean, theoretically, the information is on the website, and it's on campus and all kinds of handouts. But I mean, I have the same experience in class when I think I have said it all on the syllabus, but students are not—it doesn't reach them. It's not always, ‘oh well, you're not interested or you're not sufficiently dedicated,’ but also because, well, they just don't have the time, or they don't know where to navigate. And all these stressors, external stressors—did you hear anything about that in the focus groups? 

Michelle Ragucci: 16:45 

That would have been a great question to ask, but then again, the people who are there are the ones who respond to communication.  

Babette Faehmel: 16:50 

Oh, yeah, right! (Laughter.) 

Michelle Ragucci: 16:51 

So, you know, we need to find out the people who didn't respond. I don't think there was any more ways we could have communicated, you know, the focus groups. You know, through Slate, we did it through faculty, we did it through posters. You know, sometimes it could be information overload, but you just want to reach the students so badly, just... other than hiring a sky writer, you know, it's... 

Babette Faehmel: 17:15 

Yeah so, aside from the fees, what other barriers would you say exist... that we can—that that are ours to get rid of? Because I mean, obviously, we can't fix the long-term damage of redlining, zoning, and stuff like that. 

Dawn Jones: 17:31 

Sure. You know, I think, just access in general and making sure that we are out there in the communities that, you know, our BIPOC students are coming from—in those communities that, you know, maybe, we don't have a voice in yet. Maybe there's not that connection to us yet. So, you know, getting out there more—and I know admissions is trying, you know, they're, you know, hitting the spots that they can. But I think the pandemic has sort of, you know, put a dampener on a lot of the efforts in those areas. But you know, reaching out more to, you know, the Washington Irving's, the YWCAs, you know, and trying to work with those individuals that don’t know that they can access education, don’t know they can afford education.  

18:40 

You know, one of the things that Tiombé and I have talked about recently is the, you know, just the fact that there is a much lower percentage of BIPOC students that take advantage of internships—let alone paid internships. How can we get more of our students participating in those opportunities? Because the more they can start to gain that valuable experience and learn how their skills and their education really set them up well for the workforce, the more they're going to start to understand that career identity that goes with it and be able to market themselves well when they do complete here. You know—so, I think those are some things that we see and those aren't statistics unique to SUNY Schenectady. That's a national thing, you know, and so—. But I think those are things that we as an institution can work to make changes in. And how do we get students involved in those types of activities?  

Babette Faehmel: 19:52 

I mean that would probably be fantastic and super ideal, because, I mean, that's what the research points to. The more you are integrated into the college community and the campus and sense of belonging, like develop that and you get access to mentors and role models, the better. But, if you just don’t have the time to do that, even though maybe you want to because you have to get right back home because your childcare is only till three and then you have work at four or something like that. That's just—it's so overwhelming right? And did you hear anything about these kinds of external challenges.  

Dawn Jones: 20:36 

Well, I think that's one of the biggest reasons to promote the paid internships, right? Because if it's not paid, it's not a possibility for them at all, whereas if they're working part-time, maybe they might be able to shift some of that time into a paid internship. You know, also things like micro-internships. You know that are smaller, project-based types of internships that they might be able to take part in online even or, you know, outside of their other hours and commitments that might be more manageable.  

Babette Faehmel: 21:09 

Absolutely, and they probably should reach out to you as the Assistant Director Workforce Development, right? In order to find out what is available.  

Dawn Jones: 21:16 

Well, right, in Career Services you know we try to get out there... 

Babette Faehmel: 21:21 

Oh, yeah, sorry. Career Services. 

Dawn Jones: 21:23 

But I think, you know, we're so sort of hidden behind the scenes and not enough students take advantage of that, you know. But I think particularly our BIPOC students, they're—like you said—they're going, you know, from here to there, and there's so much else going on that you know they may not be able to take part in that during the day. 

Babette Faehmel: 21:51 

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people are not aware of the fact that, as a college, we are not just about teaching classes. We have all these wraparound—potentially wraparound resources and services if you take advantage of them. 

Dawn Jones: 22:01 

And if you know about it. If you have the other connections on campus that tell you, ‘oh, you need to go to this office, you need to go to that office.’ But if they're not here to make those connections to begin with, they're not getting that.  

Babette Faehmel: 22:13 

Absolutely, yeah. Tiombé, I know you are in a different group, but you are also the Interim Director of EOP. Do you have any like, I don't know, inspiration for Dawn or insights yourself that you want to contribute?  

Tiombé Farley: 22:26 

Well, I think, although we—I am in a different group we all work collectively for the DEI initiative and mission that SUNY Schenectady has put forth and we want to accomplish. As I was listening to Dawn and Michelle, what I was hearing was allyship is a good form of helping the college community as a whole, to reinvent or reimagine connecting services to people that may not otherwise be able to access those services. So, I think about myself when I was a student here. I was a student that was attending, who was also a parent, who also was a homemaker, who was also assisting with taking care of my parents, who also—you know, it's just a bunch of inner workings that my family contributed in a way—in a form of allyship to me.  

23:35 

That helped—that assisted me in completing my degree here and my other degrees elsewhere. But it wasn't the allyship, per se, on a consistent level at the campus community that would give me, or make me aware of said services, like paid internships, like Career Services. I didn't know about Career Services. I knew about Career Services. I didn't know that I could access Career Services once I graduated, and that was no fault to anyone in Career Services. It was my inability to stay present outside of class to understand what other resources were accessible to me. In our cohort, we work to identify what is allyship, and we then worked to identify effective ways to be an effective ally. It was really important because I think sometimes we go into something with this premature understanding of what something is.  

24:45 

And the more research you do and the more conversations that you have, you have a deeper understanding of what it is. And I understood, on a personal level, what I needed as a student, and allyship is what I needed. Student and allyship is what I needed. You were an ally to me, Professor Babette, when I was in your course, because you were one of the instructors that highlighted the different services that were available to me on campus. That was a form of allyship, and I think it's important that people understand what it is so that they know that number one if they are doing it, they can feel good in the fact that they are doing it, but they can also figure out different ways that they can expound upon that, and that was the purpose of our cohort understanding what it is, what are we currently doing and what are more effective ways that we can do that.  

25:44 

So we have put forth a plan for an allyship day that we would like to do in the fall semester, Fall 2022, which is kind of like a carnival day where we will have different activities and different sites that people could go to and learn information about allyship—different, fun, relatable activities. We're also researching getting a guest speaker, some panel discussions, and really involving other organizations that are on campus, such as AALANA, Pride Alliance, SGA, so on and so forth, and really getting students involved—that they can explain. Maybe we could get some information from the focus groups that Racial Equity Group had done and figure out ways that we can expound on allyship and, you know, and providing service to our students.  

Babette Faehmel: 26:50 

That sounds awesome. Yeah, I hope that happens. 

Tiombé Farley: 26:55 

I hope so too. We're very hopeful, too.  

Babette Faehmel: 26:56 

If you need any assistance planning, let us know.  

Tiombé Farley: 27:00 

Thank you. 

Babette Faehmel: 27:01 

Awesome. So allyship obviously is not just for our students of color, but it's broader. So, what kind of allyships were you researching? What kind of different allies were you looking at?  

Tiombé Farley: 27:16 

So, I think, being a woman and a woman of color, I think what I did was I dug deep again, and I personalized it, like, ‘what am I looking for? What is a representation for me? What would have been a representation for me as a student? And what is a representation for me of allyship as a colleague now—right?—as a professional on this campus?’ So, as you said, it does go beyond the student. Now I'm looking at myself as a colleague and my fellow colleagues and there was—. What we did for DEI—we did something called Let’s Talk series. And it was Alicia Richardson and I—who are also the cohort leads of the allyship cohort—and when we did a Let’s Talk series, Alicia presented a video of a young lady who demonstrated, like, the physical aspects of what allyship is. 

28:18 

And one of the things she said was, sometimes people get it twisted and think that people in a more... privileged group, I'll say, will think that sometimes they have to interpret and or speak for said person, and she was stating that that's not the case. A very critical part of allyship is stepping back, while either you align yourself and step along with them and show your allegiance and solidarity, or you step back, and you remove yourself. You—that are the dominant figure that often takes up the space—you step back, and you allow said persons or person's voice to be heard. A really cool example of this—and I just emailed Babette on this the other day. More recently, a high school in our area—Mohonasen High School. The New York State, and I hope I get this right, the New York State School Athletic League was considering banning beads.  

29:30 

Beads are a hairpiece that normally African American women and males will put in their hair and the athletic association, if I'm naming them correctly, was stating that they want to ban that from sports—from students or athletes participating in said sports, because they deemed it—quote unquote—unsafe. Mohonasen—and I have to say this again, Mohonasen—which is located in Rotterdam, New York. Students and their coaches—one coach I saw—said that they found this to be discriminatory against Black athletes and, in protest and in solidarity and in a form of allyship, they went on to their next track meets and wore beads in their hair. Now I do believe that at the same time that they did this the athletic association was tabling that ban, but they didn't care, meaning the students and the now activists were saying no, we're still going to show our form of solidarity. And not only did they do that, but they risked forfeiting those meets. 

Babette Faehmel: 30:58 

Wow. 

Tiombé Farley: 30:59 

If that ban was enacted—and they chose to continue to do it—they risked forfeiting those meets. These are young people, and my dream is to have them—or representatives of them —to come to this school and speak to adults about the risk that it took to put yourself out there and to show solidarity and allyship with another population of students. Mohonasen, in my time growing up wasn't particularly diverse. So, I think that's what made me do a double take when I was hearing about the story. And I was very proud of these young people and proud of these coaches, and they represented that physical aspect of allyship. Sometimes it takes risks, it takes being vulnerable, uncomfortable, and sacrifice. And all of these young people exhibited that, and I feel that they epitomize what allyship is, and I would love for—I wish they were here to speak on it. 

Babette Faehmel: 32:06 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's also so important to see people doing this kind of allyship.  

Tiombé Farley: 32:13 

Absolutely.  

Babette Faehmel: 32:14 

Because otherwise, I mean, there's a scary boundary or, like, kind of like—. There's fear and exposing yourself, but if you see other people already taking the lead and doing exactly that, that's really important... 

Tiombé Farley: 32:28 

Right. Absolutely. 

Babette Faehmel: 32:29 

...for it to spread. So, what—? Okay, back to the question of what other forms and what other kinds of allies and allyship relationships were you looking at?  

Tiombé Farley: 32:42 

We were also looking at—which was pretty interesting to me, and I hope I'm phrasing this correctly. I'll use an example. We have our Stockade building. We have Stockade 101 and Stockade 102. We're talking about different body types and different body abilities. Forms of allyship would be, in my opinion, someone saying, lets no do this session, and I’ll just use Stockade 102 as an example, Stockade 102 has a very, it’s a very cumbersome way for an individual to get in a seat and sit down comfortably, to be present in said lecture or session. 

33:36 

If you are not of a certain body type or stature or ability, you are not going to feel welcomed in that space. So, allyship is someone else recognizing and saying, ‘hey, this might not be conducive—or inclusive—to everyone. What is a more inclusive environment where every body type and ability can be present and share in that space?’ So it went beyond race, it went beyond sex for me when we talked about different body types, when we talked about neurodiversity—not to jump on to a different podcast—but just the different ways in which certain people or peoples are not seen or heard. When you recognize that and you are someone who is of a... that is seen or heard, that's your time to use your allyship and to voice your opinion or concerns. But to also know, when you don't know what to say, to step back and to ask said persons or person, ‘how is it that I can be an effective ally? How is it that I can make this more equitable for all of us?’ So, I think that's what's really important.  

Babette Faehmel: 34:57 

And those chairs in the Stockade 102—they are absolutely awful. (Laughter.) 

Dawn Jones: 35:01 

I don't know who thought those were a good idea for anybody.  

Babette Faehmel: 35:05 

I have no idea.  But the first time I saw those, I was reminded of these old-fashioned carnival rides where you squeeze yourself into one of these little cars and whatnot. (Laughter.) If you have sciatica, if you have a pinched nerve, anything, it's just horrible to sit in there. (Agreement.) 

Michelle Ragucci: 35:19 

I had to sit in there when I was pregnant. You just feel immediately crushed. (Laughs.) 

Babette Faehmel: 35:24 

Yeah, exactly. Which once again comes back to the point that we have made in many other podcasts, that what assists, what helps—what helps minoritized populations succeed helps also the majoritized ones. It doesn't matter, there's no, I don't know, like, lowering the bar at all, it's just basically making…  

Michelle Ragucci: 35:46 

Universal design. 

Babette Faehmel: 35:47 

Universal design, exactly! That anybody can access it. So, did you work together as a group at all? Like, was there—I mean, I know we always work together, we cross paths constantly. 

Michelle Ragucci: 36:01 

Dawn mentioned something upcoming. 

Dawn Jones: 35:56 

Well, one of the things that Tiombé and I talked about just the other day was, you know, our group—our cohort—wanted to look at implementing some more events to be able to have these discussions. And, you know, have people's voices heard—whether it was a series of sessions, lunch and learns, things like that. And then, of course, when Tiombé mentioned her allyship day that they might be looking at, I was like, yes, you know, we... 

Tiombé Farley: 36:35 

DEI week. (Laughter.) 

Dawn Jones: 36:36 

Right. And so, you know, now we're looking at that potential, and I think it sounds like it might be something that we can definitely count on other cohorts to jump on board with. Because I think that there's some of that overlap, you know, in all of them. You know, you can see how they sort of blend together in the different pieces of it, you know, and when we're affecting positive change for one group, we're affecting positive change for other groups, too.  And so, I think, you know, if we can set these things into motion—and again, provide more opportunity for people to have open, honest discussions, learn from one another, and be open to, you know, receiving that information, too. Because you know, like Tiombé said, when we don't know, it's time to step back and it's time to get that information from other people, and I think it really gives us an opportunity to do that. 

37: 38 

And one of the nice things that I saw at the Let's Talk About It session that I did for racial equity, was that it wasn't just students, it was faculty and students, it was administrators, so it was really a group of everybody. And I think that we need more opportunities like that, and I think that having these types of sessions is going to help that continue, because it can't be just a week, right? It can't be just a day; it can't be just a week. It needs to be ongoing; it needs to become part of who we are. And it needs to be something that, you know, whether we're part of the formal DEI initiative or not, that this is what we are doing and that we are invested in that.  

Babette Faehmel: 38:30 

Yeah, and it becomes part of our identity as employees of this higher education institution, right? I mean, we cannot just—I cannot just teach, right? And you cannot do—just not only do Career Services or Academic Services. We have to see the whole student and support them, and I mean it's all connected. There's no separation of these fields. I can see allyship to be so—not only can I see it as important to educate faculty and other people who are working with students about allyship, but also, I mean you model it in the classroom. Other students become allies too, right? And then you have—if we do want to have a more diverse student population and want to reach underserved communities, then once we have them in the seats, we need to really support them. We need to make it possible for them to succeed. 

Tiombé Farley: 39:30 

Absolutely. 

Babette Faehmel: 39:31 

And I don't think—yeah, we probably can do still a lot more, even though we cannot solve those systemic and economic issues around us.  

Tiombé Farley: 39:42 

I agree, and I wanted to piggyback off of what you said, as far as have we worked together? We've directly and indirectly worked together. I think one of the biggest things that we've learned from this is that we all intersect with one another, and when Dawn spoke about, you know, when she did the Let’s Talk—or when we did the Let’s Talk—I agree, it was nice to see that varying of members of representation in the audience. Not to be, you know, a pessimist, but I wish that at each talk it was near capacity. Now, COVID reasons, obviously, maybe, we don't want it really near capacity. But you do want to see—. It was refreshing to see those that were there, especially the people that, you know, you're not mandated, you're not required. So, it shows that you care, it shows your level of investment. I would like to see more of that. I would like this to be a common occurrence that people are just attending and it's not—. You know, it benefits all of us. When we all want to—when we're all invested in making this experience worthwhile and inclusive for everyone in this community, it benefits all of us, collectively. So, I would like to see those spaces filled up a little bit more and I'm really hopeful that we'll get there. I think we're getting there. 

Babette Faehmel: 41:19 

I think we are, and—I definitely hope so. I mean, we have come really a long time, because I've been here for quite a while. I've been here since 2009.  

Tiombé Farley: 41:30 

Yeah. (Laughter.) 

Babette Faehmel: 41:31 

And this is a completely different place. But I also don't want us to lose the momentum. I mean, because there's so much stuff going on with system-wide changes and—SUNY systems—and all kinds of initiatives that everybody is engaged in, like, two or three of them. But this is so existential... so I would definitely hope that it will not go away.  

Tiombé Farley: 42:05 

As long as we keep pushing and as long as we keep caring and staying invested. Just really quick. When Dawn talked about—. We were a members—. There was X amount of teams and now there's two. It's the same thing with allyship. And I believe it's the same thing in each cohort if I'm not mistaken within this DEI initiative. But—and for varying reasons. People have their reasons, and they’re legitimate reasons why they couldn't stay committed. We are all inundated with different responsibilities and things of that nature, but it says a lot about those that stuck through and that stayed committed and show up to meetings and are showing their interest in getting it right and doing it right. So, that's why I'm hopeful, because—although there were some that, you know, fell off along the way—it's those that keep showing up that really make my heart smile. 

Babette Faehmel: 43:08 

So, what would you say is the next step that you would like? If the team—if you had unlimited time for research and creating best practices and whatnot, what would you be looking at? What would you be trying to do? (Pause.) I know, right? What a question.  

Dawn Jones: 43:28 

Wow. There's so much that needs to be done. I don't know that it can be just one thing or that—. You know, what I would want to see is that the DEI initiative as a whole becomes something that is automatic when a new faculty member comes on board. That you are immersed into this in a way that's meaningful to you. Because we can't all be a part of every one of these cohorts, we can't do it all, but when they can take part in a way that's meaningful to them and within the work that they do, I think that's where we're going to really start to see the momentum, you know, as it continues. And I'm really hopeful that, with, you know, some of the new changes with SUNY and you know the DEI initiatives with SUNY, that we're going to start to see more of that coming through. And so those are some things that I'm really hopeful about. But I think that's also going to shape how we do some of what we do as well, when we're getting more of that information. And I think one of the things that was coming from SUNY was, sort of, this survey—the, you know, a racial equity survey, a climate survey almost. And so, I think we're, you know, we're waiting to see what's... 

Michelle Ragucci: 45:02 

It was supposed to be a spring thing, and kind of waited... 

Dawn Jones: 45:05 

Right. So, it's, you know, whether or not these things come down to us by fall. But I think, no matter what, just ensuring that—semester to semester—things happen, whether they're small steps that we take or bigger ones, but I think as long as we just keep moving. That's going to be the key thing.  

Babette Faehmel: 45:35 

I was just about to ask are there already things that you can see yourself do differently or that you ask your office to do differently?  

Dawn Jones: 45:46 

I know for me, you know when I—I'll bring up the internship piece again. One of the pieces that struck me the most in the research from a Career Services perspective was, again, the internship piece and how not enough of our Black and brown students are taking part in these paid internships. But also, the fact that you know, when we get a request from an employer to send us their best candidates, right? Well, who is getting sent? It's those students that can stay and chat with the teachers and all of that. It's the students that are getting A's in their courses. Well, when we have access issues and other responsibilities, those may not be the best candidates. Those A students are not all of our best candidates. We have so many wonderful students that are flying under the radar, and they need to be seen and heard, and this is my opportunity to help their voice be heard, right?—in that way.  

46:59 

So, instead of sending the best candidates—and I'm using my air quotes-here—instead of sending those best candidates, I am saying no, I will send you a list of all of my candidates, you know, who meet your criteria, and then we go from there. So those students that have a resume in my system and who have met with me and have said I'm looking for these types of opportunities, and so, you know, really making sure that I'm putting in those very equitable practices across the board, and that's really how I can see my area making those changes but also being a part of it, seeing how everything affects that. I know, Babette, I showed you the sign outside of my door the last time you came by, and it was. You know, when you come into this office, you are important, you are loved, you have all these things, you're welcome and I'm going to give you the best that I can give you when you come into my office. And I really, you know, that's sort of my commitment to the whole DEI, right? Not just racial equity and not just the others: All of it.  

Tiombé Farley: 48:14 

I like what you said because of what I think is really important, too, is that what employers may deem the ‘best candidate.’ The other candidates that they may not deem the best candidates may have qualities that surpass what they're looking for and what they think they want in their best candidate...  

Dawn Jones: 48:36 

Absolutely. 

Tiombé Farley: 48:37 

...Because those other candidates are having to navigate and to manage life situations, social situations—you know, food, housing, racial, all these inequities and insecurities—and they're showing up every day and they're pushing through these obstacles every day.  

49:01 

And that's what I love about the service that you provide, Dawn, is because you're able to help someone articulate those lived experiences as quality skill sets. Because, not to dress it up and make it that way, it's because it is. If you wake up every day as a single mother and you come onto this campus, you have pushed through a barrier, and you have shown your ability to be a leader. You have shown your ability to overcome. You have shown your ability to manage high stressful situations.  

Dawn Jones: 49:40 

Absolutely. 

Tiombé Farley: 49:41 

And those are things that are valuable and should be valuable to every employee, and those—quote unquote— other candidates deserve just as much, if not more attention, for their lived experience and what they do every single day. 

Babette Faehmel: 49:59 

Absolutely.  

Tiombé Farley: 50:00 

So, that's why I appreciate that you incorporate that into the service that you provide, because you could just check it off and say, ‘I'm going to send this A student and this student and this student,’ but you make sure that it's equitable and you make sure that those other students see the value in their lived experiences and their skill sets and what it is that they bring to the table. That's very important. 

Babette Faehmel: 50:25 

But checking the boxes, you would probably also have an easier day because you wouldn't have to explain the situation and, like, deal with the pushback. So—. 

Tiombé Farley: 50:33 

Right.  

Babette Faehmel: 50:34 

Definitely. Academic Services. How are you, like, in Academic Services, incorporating your insights, Michelle?  

Michelle Ragucci: 50:41 

Well, I really— (Clears throat.)—excuse me. I've been focusing on trying to find the right kind of training for the tutors to make sure that they're providing an equitable experience for the students that they're working with. And especially things like implicit bias and access. I think those things are really important to make sure that the people who work here are aware of, so they're providing an equitable support to the students that they see. And also, been working on increasing the diversity of our tutors—especially the peer tutors—trying to recruit more students of color to be, you know, the peer tutors. So, there's more of a representation of the students who work in the learning center. And I think that's really important for one—for them to have that employment opportunity while they're on campus. You know, being able to work in between classes, you don't really have too many job opportunities where you can literally work for an hour and then go back to class. But also, for the students who may be more hesitant to work with tutors you know, if they see representation on the floor, they might be more willing to come in for support.  

Babette Faehmel: 51:55 

That's cool. So, they should all get—if they're interested in being a tutor—get in touch with Michelle Ragucci... 

Michelle Ragucci: 51:59 

Yes, absolutely. 

Babette Faehmel: 52:00 

...Academic Services. 

Michelle Ragucci: 52:01 

If you're an instructor listening and you have a student to recommend, send them my way. I love hiring students to work in the Center. 

Babette Faehmel: 52:10 

Well, so I know that the professional development teams in their current form might not continue, but I don't think that you're going to stop working on this because it doesn't really sound like it.  

Dawn Jones: 52:22 

There was no end date, so, exactly okay, and I think we might see some shift in the way it's being done, but I don't think this work is going to stop anytime soon.  

Babette Faehmel: 52:35 

No, I agree, I think it has become, like, an organic part of what we do as a college and that's awesome. That's about—much needed and about time. 

Tiombé Farley: 52:44 

Absolutely. 

Babette Faehmel: 52:45 

Well, okay, so I can only say thank you again for coming and for sharing your insights and everything. It was awesome. So, thank you again Michelle Ragucci, Dawn Jones, and Tiombé Farley. 

Michelle Ragucci: 52:59 

Welcome. 

Dawn Jones: 52:59 

Thanks for having us.  

Tiombé Farley: 53:00 

Thank you for having us. 

Babette Faehmel: 53:01 

You're very welcome. Thanks to the school of music, and especially Sten Isachsen and Michaela Stay, for making possible the recording, mixing, and editing and editing of this episode. Many Voices, One Call is made possible thanks to the financial support of the SUNY Schenectady Foundation and because of assistance and contributions by the REACH Initiative Leadership Team, the Student Mentoring Program, the Student Government Association, and the Student Activities Advisor.